Elitatwo for CSM 14

Also fun is that specific mission where mines are triggered each time you start mining an asteroid, so if you fully tank fit a praxis for example and fill it with mining lasers you can spam activate and deactivate a bunch of mines in rapid succession when someone scans you down and enters grid, preferably by deploying an MTU, each mine explosion deals hunderds of damage as I recall, so you can pop unaware ships this way if done right. A nasty surprise in true EVE fashion. :smiling_imp:


Woah there, delete this!
I have to try it before it’s getting complained about!


I gladly would but more fun if I don’t. :smiling_imp:



That’s not how this works. When too many people get to know about a mechanic CCP will eventually patch it out. That’s how they operate. Nowadays it’s even worse, because nowadays people start complaining despite not being affected. The last thing we need is even more stupid whiners complaining about mechanics.

Hahahahahahaha :smile:

It is an intentional part of that mission since at least 2008 according to that above linked post so it is both intentional and a long time part of the game anyway. Don’t think even people complaining will make it go away, just like how afk cloaking and bumping are still part of the game as well.

Edit: Btw if you succeed in killing some people using this feel free to drop me an EVEmail. Always glad to read fun stories. :slight_smile:

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On that note, when I get “Recon 3/3” level 4 the first time, I took a shuttle to investigate the area and poof :frowning:
I am flying a different ship for that one now.


I used to do this one in a fast frigate after learning the hard way. :blush:


I’ve always appreciated your participation and comments on the forum, so I’m glad that you’re considering a run for CSM.

Could you comment a little bit on what you think the state of the NPE is, where you see challenges in retention and conversion of new players, and what steps you think CCP could take to mitigate some of those issues?

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I am assuming that means “new player experience”?

Honestly I cannot say anything about that. What I have heard is that the new tutorial is okay or not okay depending who is answering.
I have two characters, one of which I treat more as an incognito login for when I need to look something up but don’t want to talk to anyone.

First, that is not something I am campaigning for.

In my opinion EVE Online is advertised as login on, creating a character, undock a titan and being part of a 10000 character fleet and pressing F1 all day.

Maybe the old way should come back and EVE Online should be advertised as something you spend a really long time with, gradually learn skills in real-time, making connection with real people all around the globe and ever so slowly learn the ropes while you have ample of time to set your goals.
Your goals will change over time and EVE Online is the only game that I know of, where you can do everything, change your mind and do something complete different.
Every character can learn the same thing and every skill is has finite number, each of which end in level 5 and that’s it.

New players often come here and want to kill Guristas in an Kisogo asteroid belt until they have “leveled up” but EVE Online doesn’t work this way.

New players should for the first 2-3 years only have a 24 hour que and forget the notion that you have to have every skill in the bookshelf ready at level 5 from the get-go to be able to do stuff and have fun. This is so far from the truth.

The first few months can be challenging when you first learn about the bookshelf and imagine that most characters you interact with may have most of those books already trained to the magic level 5 but they should also realize that those characters they come to envy will have to have trained those skills in the same time or will have a complete different “upbringing” than they have.
They should also know about how things used to be right at the beginning - maybe even within a tutorial speed bubble or something when the bookshelf is explained.

Auro could drop a comment on how the first pilots in EVE Online had to train learning skills which where later incorporated as starting character attributes, so they get an appreciation on how good they have it now.

In a weapon tutorial they should get explained that the biggest ship is not necessarily the best ship and that even a small frigate with low skillpoints can make a difference and not be able to hit said frigate in an example fight, where a new pilot is sent to a NPC battleship for the weapon tutorial, told to approach that NPC battleship in a steep angle, while of course the battleship shoots back but cannot really hit the tutorial frigate even though Auro drops a comment that this battleship (a Blasterthron) can do up to 1300dps while the tutorial frigate does 150dps (during the weapon tutorial and only then) but flying smart will prohibit real harm coming to the tutorial frigate and the pilot will have to manage a “orbit 500m” maneuver and kill the Megathron.
The NPC Megathron will be fit like a pvp Megathron with MWD, web, scram, shooting t1 antimatter L and launch Ogre drones which will do 10 dps for the tutorial but the turrets will be doing 1000dps.
The frigate will be a Merlin for the Caldari, an Incursus for the Gallente, a Punisher for the Amarr and the shield booster bonus matar one.
All those tutorial frigates will be doing 150-200dps and be pre-fit with a proper pvp fit.
You would have to manage to pull of the “orbit 500m” maneuver until you don’t get killed and once you will be given a vector to follow, after that and only if you manage to not get killed in your 500m orbit, you get to kill the Megathron, which will run out of cap boosters (for the tutorial I suggest that NPC Megathron pilot to be an idiot whom forgot to buy new cap charges and only carries 2x 3200 t1 charges) quickly and die to a noob.
In a second weapon tutrial scenario, your sturdy frigate will have to “fight” and loose to a destroyer class ship, which you then get to pilot once and “fight” and loose to a cruiser, just to showcase that loosing means loosing.
But the gist would be that bigger != better and flying a frigate for a long time until you have the engineering, navigation, weapon and whatever skills to level 2 is not a bad thing to do.
The tutorial will then explain the bookshelf and give out the “beginner books” and show how to get the other books for the shelf with the upcoming “books on demand” thing.
The skill tutorial should explain very clearly that you do not have to have all skills a level 5 and that new pilots should strive to train to level 3 first and once they are used to the concept that skill training will take time but is worth every second, train to level 4 at least and much later to level 5.
Skills like “armor compensation” do not have to be level 5 on day one and will be fine “stuck” at level 2 for a long time.
Aura then comes and tells every new citizen of New Eden, that skilltraining is something to be considered running in the background and has only little impact on the fun you can have with your low amount of skillpoints at the beginning.

As a bonus, right after the weapon tutorial, explain the map and the gate system and send new pilots to a 0.7 systems where miners are under attack by local pirates and they have to protect them by shooting those pesky pirates.
For showcasing purposes, Aura will get a weapon skill on top of the que (cannot be changed for the duration) to complete to level 3, showing the new player that the weapon damage of his ship just increased by 5% but only can only increase by another 10% for the remaining weapon system until the pilot reaches that weapon level to 5.
Aura then tells the new pilot that the level 3 weapon skill is enough to deal with those local asteroid belt pirates.

(and then they get killed by BlooBB Raiders or BlooBB Guristas because that system has a FOB in it and they never log on again…)

In a ship showcasing tutorial where some ship classes will be shown, it should be made very clear a ship like pirate faction ships are not for new pilots and should not be considered until they master at least their starting race’s ships and a second race’s ship class with all those different weapons and different philosophies, so they have a clear “beginner’s goal” to strive for - master Caldari, Gallente, Amarr or minmatar until battlecruiser, which should give any noob a goal for the first year or so.

Then comes the bad things - everything you want to do costs money! Losses, new books, ship gear, vanity items and those nice things.

Then the tutorial get’s to how to make isk in EVE Online.

If new pilots are still complaining after that, I cannot help them.

Long story short - stop advertising titan online but tell new pilots that they can make a difference right away.


Indeed it does, and though I don’t necessarily agree with it all I like a lot of how your responded and the thought put into it, particularly in the expectations management area.

Follow-up question: In the spirit of “making a difference right away” and moving players into more of a community within the game, do you feel that additional steps or mechanisms should be in place to get players introduced to player communities or corps more effectively than the way this system is handling it to day? If so, any thoughts on how to achieve that?

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May I ask why you believe there needs to be “some love for LP stores, LP store items”?

Missions are fine, I guess, but I don’t know if those by themselves are a strong enough platform that would get me to vote.

And finally, what do you mean by “module balance”? Do you mean actually balancing the stats of the modules, or are you referring to teiricide, which CCP has already announced that they are going to continue pursuing.

Thank you for your kind response!

I think it would be a good idea to point aspiring new pilots to corporations or alliances like EVE-UNI or Red vs Blue if they still exist.
From what I have heard, they are a good place to start in EVE.

I was telling about my experiences when I first started but I had it a little easier. I had 5 college buddies already playing EVE since 2004 and 2005 and constantly urging me to join while I was struggling to earn money and trying to wrap my mind around a monthly fee - which was at the time still very new.
Then after a college party, I have been given a disk (the client used to fit on a CD with only 450 MB in size) with a 3 week trial and since I wasn’t tired at 2 am, I thought “oh well, let’s take a look…”
Three days later I was still scouring through the market and reading the attributes and information tabs on all those different modules and ships, my buddies wanted me to join their corp and do stuff with them.
They where mining in Autaris and I was doing the first career mission, when one of my buddies was yelling on comms that his exhumer was under attack by pirates and I had to come rescue them.
I was flying a buffer fit Kestrel (I always made my own fits right from the beginning) and “rushed” from Kisogo to Autaris with 500 skillpoints in navigation and 1000 skillpoints in engineering, so a 37 AU warp would take me at least 2 warp attempts, which completely erased my capacitor and the 7 jump trip took ages - I thought New Eden was infinitely huge and nobody could ever go to all those gajillion solar systems in a lifetime.
45 minutes later I arrived in Autaris and I was told to come to belt 2, where the corp mining op was taking place.
Imagine, I was 3 days old with 51.000 skillpoints and an empty bookshelf - scheduling my learning skills - and warped to asteroid belt 2 and was greated by those 3 Guristas pirate frigates, which almost ripped me a new one but I managed to shoot them down and I hear appraisal on comms - the exhumer was saved, crises averted.
How cool was that?

I never had a moment where I thought, I “could not catch up with skillpoints” because I saw very clearly that everyone did the same thing - just at different starting points.
By the way, since that night I always loved to play the “asteroid guard” for our mining ops. I contributed in a meaningful way right from the start.

If new pilots would be welcomed by EVE-UNI or Red vs Blue and put into their public channels early to be guided to a good place to start, would help a lot.

Some LP stores are less appealing than other or don’t have anything worthwhile getting which you can get elsewhere with less effort.
Like the Khanid Navy Ballistic Control which I would love to fit on a Sacrilege or Damnation but there aren’t many on the market and collecting all those republic fleet tags takes too long.

Yes, I meant the latter. CCP stopped refreshing modules after doing some modules but so many are still on the list.
Local armor reps, shield boosters, guns come to mind - they all still have meta 1-4 items, which I would rather see gone and replaced with the “compact”, “enduring”, “restricted” versions of them.
It is good that they are pursuing them again but it doesn’t hurt to poke.

There is for example an office magstab which is currently listed as storyline but storyline modules are meta level 6 and not meta level 12 and if you open the compare tool on magstabs, you can clearly see that the damage modifier should be much lower for a storyline module.


Great responses, thanks.

Got my vote!


Let’s be honest though, it’s not due to a lack of complaining that it won’t change, it’s because it’s in a mission, and wrt missions it’s all ‘legacy code’ and no one at CCP is brave enough to touch it. :slight_smile:

On Topic Edit:

I’ll take your word on that… and for the measly sum of 5 billion isk (literally paid by anyone) I can guarantee that I will definitely consider voting for elitatwo. :slight_smile:



Thank you everyone for your consideration!


Did I mention that mission objcetives should not spawn in the pilot’s cargo hold?

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Not to my knowledge. But I was wondering about that myself. I thought they drop in a can which you have to pick up?

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Someone said they spawn in cargo holds now thanks to people stealing them.

What do you have to say? :slight_smile:


That sounds like one of those things like space mines or Suitonia placing a snitch device in a burner mission.

Some people do weird things. I wasn’t entirely unhappy when I saw my objective appear in my cargo hold, but I was confused a little because it said “pick up” and all of a sudden it says “bring to agent” and I know I didn’t pick up anything yet.

I for one like it. However, I also like to shoot a few triggers early and leaving uninvited “guests” to their fate - most of them really don’t like that at all.
And sometimes you would have to look through 40 or more wrecks until you find what you are looking for.

Why do you think that gank-baiters do not like being shot at by NPCs and getting “suspiciously” deprived of their ships and yelling unreadable things in local?

Let’s call it quality of life improvement. The less time you spend looking, the more isk you can make.

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Yup, the Damsel in Distress does spawn in your mission running ship. I’m sure it was because of the “held for ransom/ buy at obscene market prices” that ninja salvagers way back when loved to do and made it a mission favorite. Not so sure on many others, however.