The way I like to say this is "developers should design/develop for real people, not the ‘ideal gamer’.
That’s what happens a lot, and CCP is as guilty of it as any. Hell, if you look at the player ideas on this forum, , PLAYERS do it too.
These elaborate plans and ideas don’t work because people don’t react perfectly or even rationally. The folks who thought blackout would be great (and that ratters and miners would just sit there and be slaughtered for their entertainment only to be surprised when damn near no one logged in to play in most of null for several weeks) are the same folks that cannot for the life of them understand that this ESS plan means NO CONTENT.
In the same way people didn’t just get there and get slaughtered in the darkness of blackout, they aren’t going to sit there and yet you steal their isk. Just like how in blackout many folks just didn’t play or played somewhere else or moved into the middle of the big Defense blob, likewise will they do here with this ESS plan.
Nothing we say here will have any impact though. What will happen is the change will go live, in short order the crappy things we predict will happen, and the same people that argued that it was a good thing will suddenly forget they said that and the next time it happens, they will have learned exactly nothing.
Brisc’s Law: The longer a conversation goes on with Olmeca, the likelihood that he will post his Grr Goons Imgur picture of all the mean things said to him approaches 100%.
I have literally no idea what are you talking about: i have never seen it in some greater extent than anywhere else outside npc corporation. I could not care less about Mittanis propaganda sperg, i´m not required to do anything in goons except 2 things: do fleets and don´t screw your comrades. That´s it. No one is forcing me to do anything else. If people are acting like morons because they heard Mittani saying something - it´s them having no bullcrap filter in brains. Go ahead, blame Mittens for that. You sound way to much like those PAPI nerds from reddit who are screeching about Mittens eating fried babies while themselves are… more forgiving for other things that are not comming from goons.
But ok, let´s say that everything you´ve said is true: conditioning their people with an “us and them” culture, vilifying enemies; fostering a target calling, gaslighting culture, all of that. Show me an alliance that does not have archenemies, show me an alliance which members are not pointing at those enemies and acting on “us vs them”, or acting like their enemies are all Hitlers. And it doesn´t even have to do anything with alliance rivalry, look at yourself:
Believe or not - when you target a group of players for something that is in your own head, and literally screw with them for an entire year or more - those people will not like you. As for me: i didn´t call you spastic at all, (cut it off, i didnt. I said it about 1dq campers and i dont think that we ever met in 1dq, thus i didn´t include you in this group in my original post) but i did call you other things, and i didn´t do it for no reason. The reason is:
Literally 3/4 of entire EVE (highsec, lowsec, wh-space + npc null) got different playstyle than us, and we dont hate them. I have absolutely 0 idea where did you get it from as i´ve been in goons and flew with goons for some years, and i´ve never encountered any of those things that you´ve described. From certain individuals - sure. From goons as a group - no. But you created this image and declared crusade on an imaginary enemy, doing that 360 days a year and using maybe the most disliked activity in null - cloaky camping. At one point you are wrighting that you will go “for any top dog” and doing this because goons are “krabbing too much”, yet still we find out (well, it was obvious before as well) that it is all about Goons and maybe even about Mittani only. Hypocrisy if through the roof and beyond the horizon.
Dont want people to call you a hateful nerd?
Then stop acting like a hateful nerd.
If someone punches you, it’s OK to punch them back. He called me spastic. I called him edgy in return. If you believe I’m the one in the wrong there, you are wrong.
If Oasa mines this much, so can every other region. This point alone invalidates whatever you are saying. Resources are there. People still are motivated to collect them. But they are at war. Cluster-wide wars are always temporary. You are using a single wartime MER, of ONLY mining, to argue that there is no point in owning sov.
Firstly, its just hateful ugliness how you bring my RL into this. Secondly, when you find any entity at the scale of Horde, Brave, Goons, TEST, living in NPC null; let me know. Most of null lives in sov null. I shouldn’t need to cite you anything to convince you into this very common sensical claim.
You know why my ideas are so influential to the degree that you can blame me for influencing CCP SO MUCH that I killed my own gameplay? Because CCP reads me arguing with Goons like you; and they notice I don’t do things like stretching argumentative points this much in denial. You are willing to disagree with me on even the most common sensical fact; most of null lives in sov null. How do you people not see that’s seriously undermining to your own cause of talking balance here makes me curious.
You have thousands of people on reddit, on forums. You can surround me with your toxicity, trigger me, call me names. When it’s all Goons vs me, I will look like the asshat at the center. All that’s already been done for years. But this strategy still failed because I actually defended the right things, in a convincing way; and here you are just debating me whether most null lives in sov null or not.
OK. Please let CCP know when a serious exodus begins. What you are claiming isn’t even directly related to ESS. You’re just saying reward faucets are too insufficient. To fix it, all they’d have to do is increasing faucets. I’m tired of nullseccers constantly playing the doomsayer oracle about every significant change. I heard arguments why cyno changes, super changes, boson changes were doom for nullsec. Making farm impossible. Forcing everyone to quit null.
If the problem you’re predicting is an actual problem, it’ll emerge as a problem, and CCP can play with 2 numbers in the code to fix it.
How many people is… Helping to… regularize the pve activity?, Goons have like 3 dudes from differents groups watching to catch the unlucky one krabbing in their safest place, You should feel happy, they did something You didn’t, 3 campers per system
He didn’t. He said the people camping 1DQ were spastic, and later clarified that he specifically wasn’t including you in that. Why would he? In all the years you’ve been annoying people in Delve, you’ve hit people in 1DQ… twice. Both of them were within a single week, 6 months ago. The first time, you did all of 0 damage, and the second, you’re one bomber in a group of 125 people. So really, you aren’t exactly a notorious 1DQ camper.
Absolutely nobody thinks of you as one of the 1DQ campers. Nobody. I’d be shocked if either of the gangs you were on those two-and-a-pod whole kills with remembers you were there. Trying to make it out like he obviously must have intended that label to apply to you is disingenuous and dishonest.
So he wasn’t trying to call them ‘spastic’ as a way to diminish your argument. You, on the other hand, definitely did call him ‘edgy boi’ as a way to be dismissive of him in precisely the kind of ad hominem you decry and claim as evidence of ‘toxicity’. That’s not punching back, it’s just attacking someone, and then trying to play the victim—as usual.
If every other region were the size of Oasa and at least 2 regions away from any potential hostile staging, that might be accurate. But they’re not. Most of the remote regions in the south are the size of Period Basis (40 systems, 1638 moons), or Omist (43 systems, 1900 moons), not Oasa (85 systems, 3796 moons). Or they have NPC space, like Fountain and Delve. Or they’re close to low/NPC null, like Fountain, Delve, Querious, Catch, Providence, Scalding Pass, Cache, Esoteria… you get the idea. So under the current conditions… it’s not accurate. Sorry.
I’m not the one who brought your RL into this discussion. You can’t go throwing it around as a cudgel and then—again—try to play the victim when someone else simply makes mention of it.
Well, except I asked you to define ‘mainstream null group’, now didn’t I? You started throwing around real player member counts as if you have data on those. So I asked you to back up that claim. And you… well, I don’t see any data backing up your claim, do I?
Instead, you’re shifting the goal posts by moving from your ‘real person’ count to ‘at the scale of’ literally 4 of the 5 biggest sov-holding groups in the game’. So, by your metrics, there are only 5 ‘mainstream’ alliances in null? Is that right, or would you like to move your goalposts again? Because BRAVE is 2.5x the size of the next biggest alliance. Clearly, those top 5 are in a class by themselves…
… except, you know, for Silent Company, which bases out of highsec and is bigger than any of them, but goes hunting in lowsec, null, j-space. Guess they’d skew your numbers in uncomfortable ways though, huh?
No, it’s because you got people to vote you onto the CSM. Being on the CSM allowed you establish a direct, personal relationship with developers, and your ideas fit in with directions they were already considering. That’s why. The CSM doesn’t have power, it has relationships, and that’s where its strength is. And as every other former CSM has said, multiple times, CCP only needs one voice on the CSM saying ‘I think your idea is good’ to ignore everyone else saying it’s bad. They’re human beings. Just like everyone else, they focus on validation and tune out dissent.
However, I should also remind you that my point regarding you getting your own playstyle wiped out wasn’t me ‘blaming’ you for that. It was about you being short-sighted enough to not see it coming, and hypocritical enough to complain when they did it, and post your big ‘CCP blew it and nerfed me so I’m quitting!’ post on reddit.
So, I guess, good jorb on the straw man, Homestar?
First off, my position was pretty openly asking a question, not pushing conclusions, so another great straw-man there. Second, we’ve already gotten news from CCP this past Wednesday on the stream on the sort of things they’re interested in doing to (GASP!!) improve the rewards for owning space in null. Because where it is now is where, according to Rattati and Psych, they wanted it to bottom-out, and they’re going to be looking to increase things soon.
Well then I refer the honorable lady to the answer I gave some moments before;
And this is still off-topic, so as I have no input on ESS now that Orca, Arrendis (and to a hilarious degree Olmeca) have explained things to my satisfaction, I have no need to discuss this further.
ССР вы в своём уме? Это тупое и обсалютно не адекватное обновление, вы убрали руду из нулей , для чего? вы сделали в империи вторые вормхоллы в хайсеках отдав системы Триглавам, зачем? Какой смысл в этих всех обновах ? Увольте идиота который это придумал он не стоит денег которые вы ему платите.
So, a ratter rats for two hours to earn some isk. Then some other players come in and try to steal that isk.
Ratters pointof view: If the ratter does not defend the ess, he loses his earned isk. If he tries to defend it and fails, he loses ships and his earned isk. If he successfully defends the ess he re-earn the isk he had already earned by ratting.
Attackers point of view: If the attacker goes in and the ratter does not defend, he gets the isk someone else earned. If the ratter tries to defend but fails the attacker gets the kill and the isk. If the ratter defends and succeeds, the attacker loses his ship + nothing, or he manages to get away.
So CCP came up with a “method” to steal money, and decided to test it on nullsec tranquility.
Instead, you know, just using already known and perfectly tested ways of allowing someone to steal someone’s else hard earned isk - by putting more of earnings into wrecks and salvage instead of wireless isk transfers.
Like it works to this day with sleepers and like it worked back in the day with rouge drones, before loot was nerfed into oblivion “because reasons”, and now looting and salvaging is what people do mostly for the novelty of it, not because it’s worth their time, with the exception of wormholes.
And so we have this monstrosity which is as far from sandbox as humanly possible with all of its stupid on-grid module limitations that seeks to re reinvent the wheel in a form of square.
It’s the dumbest update I’ve seen in this game in years, with the exception of disabling local chat in zeros. Goodbye EVE we will never meet again. I wish the developers to die in agony.
