absolutely agree! i have not advocated for eliminating pvp. i rather enjoy it on my combat toons. I am just tired of narrowminded players thinking that EVE is only a pvp game. it isnt. pvp is just one of the many facets that makes it interesting to a broad player base. The problem i see is that lately too many changes are stifling non pvp activities and driving people away. this heavy handed over balancing isnt healthy for either play style. as you said, we all need each other for the full game to work.
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It was literally one of the two things I said. Have you tried reading?
It would be incredibly dumb to compare, say World of Warcraft to EVE Online, because the way the markets work are completely different.
No player driven market.
No player driven market.
I donât really care what discussions you and your children have had. Itâs irrelevant to this topic.
See, CCP let the game alone for 3 years between the periods of 2016 and 2019 for this to run its course. You can look at the MERs through those 3 years and see that production far exceeded any destruction.
Itâs part of the reason why you saw PLEX running up past 4m isk per unit, because it was so easy to farm isk and mine ore that inflation went rampant. CCP saw that and decided it wasnât sustainable, which is why they undertook several changes to try and alter the ecosystem.
So while your point, on its own, is valid, itâs incredibly naive and ignores the big picture problems. Do some people lose some assets in PvE? Sure. Is it enough to maintain a balance in the overall ecosystem in a way that can prevent rampant bloating? No.
not sure why you dont think those markets were player driven. we crafted items and sold them at prices we chose. SOE did not put raw materials on the market, they had to be harvested. the value of those materials was set by supply and demand. But as you said, it really doesnt matter, you see this is your game for some reason and not our game, so only your opinion is truth. All i have suggested in my posts that ist there are other points of view that are equally as valid based on playstyle. What CCP is doing at the moment is costing us players. perhaps we are gaining some somewhere else, but in my role as an alliance offficer , i am not seeing the upside.
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Make PVE content more challenging. I think that was one of leavwizâs points.
I agree there needs to be better balance of production to destruction, the MERs you quoted are quite telling. Beyond the mechanicâs of the ESS (good or bad), only time will tell if the balance of production to destruction is achieved by more PVP (which I think is CCPs goal) or lack of production through player attrition.
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When we get to the point where an AI is so good you donât know itâs an AI, PvE will be the equal of PvP - until then all PvE can be gamed (and therefore farmed), whereas genuine PvP can always surprise you.
My real life money will be going elsewhere as well. No one is forcing me to play this game, or pay for it⌠but I think the take away here is âpay for itâ.
I wonder if Scoots_Choco pays or plexes their accounts, I also wonder if CCP can survive on just his/her subscription?
I have cancelled my auto renewal for my two accounts until this gets un-fu@#$d.
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Burner missions?
Ever been in an incursion and there is a late broadcast for reps and logi fails to catch a dying ship? Abysall content where not only results in automatic ship and pod losses if not completed in 20 minutes?
This assertion is false, as the risk outside of PvP will not be going anywhere if PvP was removed.
How do you type so much with those finger is your ears? Donât your arms get tired?
Starscape. Final Fantasy?
The market isnât relevant, its lossless gameplay that makes other games different to EVE. Death in EVE means stuff gets lost, where in other lossless games you just respawn, either with all your kit back, or you run back to where you died to recollect it.
If only it was that simple, it seems there is strong desire to stifle the debate and continue the status quo, no doubt due to there being a vested interested to retain an advantage.
EVE, but PvE 10 times more dangerous?
I do project discovery and fly incursions. If all the PvP players died and went to WoW tomorrow, my gameplay would not be impacted in the slightest, in fact I might even be able to do MORE incursions as half the fleet wonât have to run off when a ping gets sent out on their main to do some PvP fleet.
No, its not. CCP removed the free moon ore and made it active gameplay. Corporations with moons had income to distribute to their players like a welfare state, handing out no, or zero cost ships and paying for things like SRP with 0 effort from line members.
Many PvP campaigns were had specifically over access to moon ore resources.
In my old Null life, I helped run over 115 POSâs that had in excess of 20 billion ISK in turnover every month, with easily 8 of that being discretionary spending after paying off alliance taxes and SRP.
When CCP changed the ores to active gameplay, this free income dried up. Mining the moon ore was boring, repetitive and unrewarding. The big PvP blocks with 100âs & 1000âs of pilots able to fly supers simply went to the next easiest source of income and used their hoard of supers to generate ISK at meteoric rates.
Of course, not everyone who owned a super switched to ratting, but those that did went from getting a modest handout from the corporation every month to being able to print themselves more ISK in a month that what they got in handouts in a whole year.
Nerfing supers, nerfing fighters, which can be seen in the MER.
So? CCP just makes PvE more dangerous and destruction goes up. Problem here is at some point, the perception of the destruction being too great and people leaving due to it being an unbalanced will hurt the game in the same way.
What happens when people think the game is no longer fair? They leave, just as they did in blackout, pure and simple.
Payout drop, people move another system. The first system military index drops and all the combat sites de spawn. Second system has payout drop, index drops. This is what is happening in the areas that had all their ore taken away and now there isnât enough mining to get them back above industry 1.
Wash, rinse repeat.
Which is what I find most conflicting personally, I want to support the game, but make a clear protest against the direction CCP is going. I unsubbed during blackout, even though it did not impact me, much as the ESS does not impact incursions or project discovery. because blackout seemed punitive, more than transformative. If only the cyno changes had been done in isolation in lieu of blackouts existence, it might not have been such a bad period in the game for player engagement as it was.
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If you must know, itâs with PLEX.
And the point that everyone else is making is: âThat is not the specific issue that CCP is addressing with these changes.â
CCP are taking the easy road. If they were serious about making a good improvement, they wouldnât be going for the low-hanging-fruit approach. Thereâs not even the vague promise that improvements will be made later.
Its just ânope, sorry after 2 decades we decide drones will now suck, k, thanks, byeâ.
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Well then, its doesnât get any simpler than this: If youâre not paying to play youâre part of the problem. This isnât a charity for bored neckbeards, its a business. IMO, if youâre not contributing your real life money you really shouldnât have a say in the direction of the game.
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EvE has never been fair
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but it was fun and engaging in a variety of ways. now it is tedious and mind numbing grinds in places that used to feel useful. it seems that it is only fun for the quick hit adrenalin junkies. no one is asking for fair in a shifting sands game. what they are asking for is common sense
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The only things that have changed recently are things that make the grinds less appealling.
The unfairness is still there.
What is it thats been removed? (Apart from Structure Trading)
Umm⌠People seem to have missed that there is an explicit promise that further changes are coming to redress (some of) the nerfs. It will be in the form of additional (i-Hub / TCU or their replacements) system upgrades that will give you ores, ess % reduction, whatever.
I mean, yes itâs CCP so if it aint in the game thereâs no guarantee it will be, and it likely wonât fully replace everything theyâve changed. But if folks really canât HTFU and change up their playstyle for even a little bit, Iâm just not sure theyâre playing the same Eve as I am.
Scoots Choco, you work for CCP or are you being paid to write fake reviews for CCP? Funny how there is you and a few others that always runs to CCPs defense on everything negative said about them. You call people names which is against the community standards and the forums MODS do nothing about. You either work for CCP or they are paying you to troll the forums. Why else would the MODS let you get away with personal attacks in almost all of your post?
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i guess because 90% of people here just ignore him and donât see what he post. so they donât report his posts. 
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I look at Scootâs as a necessary evil. Kinda like Code in the game. Heâs here to weed out the weak. 
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what has been removed you ask? lets see, minerals from moon ore. minerals by type from entire regions, ice belts failing to spawn sometimes for days. Try and mine your way to building something without many friends and long range transportation logistics. The joy of being a builder is gone. thats what has been removed
If you only getting joy in building things that can only be used by large groups, then why shouldnt it take large groups to build them?
Maybe if you down scale you can find the joy in the lesser things in life.
I love how people mention they love building, the joy of building, and how thatâs been removed.
The joy of profit? Yeah, itâs been reduced, but if thatâs the reason why you donât enjoy building anymore, maybe you enjoy money more than building.
Let me tell you, I never did industry back when I played in 2012 or 2017, but I decided I would dip my toes this time around.
The market is mostly â â â â â â due to alphas being able to craft most things, so thereâs pretty much 0 profit to be made for most T1 and T2 stuff, simply due to the pile of items being continuously shoved into the market for meager profit margins.
Nevertheless, I still started researching BPOs, just because, and slowly adding to my spreadsheets.
Guess what?
There are still items worth building, and worth a decent profit, as long as you have researched BPOs, keep a steady flow of production, donât flood the market at once, and avoid undercutting competition too often.
All you require now is a bit more thought on where youâll be acquiring your building mats from, be it mining yourself or buying the minerals/ore, creating a courier contract or hauling it yourself, and keeping up to date with major market changes.
If you ever had the conception that âthe ore I mine is free, and anything I make from it is profitâ, then you should really learn a bit more on economics.
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