Encounter Surveillance System Update

And you got that impression from what exactly? I never said I don’t have or that I don’t use alts, I am just saying that they are bad for game, especially after 2012-2015 period when people started doing one man incursions, one man 10 rorqual fleets, hell, even in PVP there was one man bomber fleet. Ofc, those are extreme examples, but still, people running 6-12 toons for PI + 6-12 research alts and it adds up…

Around 2015 I’ve had 8 research toons with manufacturing lines, did I use it? Yes… Was it fair? Well, I don’t think one guy should be able to outproduce corp of 10 actual people. Instead of me being able to produce 3 jump freighters per month, I was able to pump 24 of them, just by myself. Also instead of promoting team playing in online game, everything in EVE is more of “just make another alt instead of splitting the profits”.

I get it that some people like alts, I get it that people are used to them, hell, I also keep few of them around, I am just saying that for general health of the game, they might not be the best thing. You are free to have different opinion and ofc voice it as I have, but I would appreciate arguments instead of trying to insult my abilities.

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In what way is it not fair? (I mean, we are ignoring that you want rid of a function that youve already profitted from, which is kicking the ladder put from those coming after you)

That one guy is only out producing them if they are not doing the minimum they need. 10 real players working to a goal will generally be able to deal with changes. Not only that, if that one guy cant get on line, he loses 100% of his work opportunities. If one of the ten are unable, thats just 10% work drop.

Im sorry to hear you were offended, but when people try to get me to kill my family of alts, I get somewhat defensive. But there is nothing stopping anyone having many alts, so the most logical angle was that some people have difficulty operating them. Thats not intended as an insult.

Look the bottom line is this, besides a feeling of “unfairness”, what is the issue with having alts? And what about them is unfair?

Well, we also used to stone people, and some people profited a lot by having slaves do all the work, so I guess now I should be annoyed that somebody kicked the ladder under me :slight_smile:

It’s the scale issue. Alts are way to strong force multipliers. Like look at PI stuff, say you are smaller corp and you want to start SRP program and build stockpiles. Assume there is 2 corps, each one has 10 real people. One of the corp is using alts, another isn’t.

The one using alts can generate 30 toons pulling PI stuff from planets, generate far bigger profits and support their corp way better. They can also use their alts parked in space with OCR running software to be used as early warning system while they do something else, they can also build in parallel 10 carriers while enemy can build 3 of them in parallel. You done for the day, well, just log of your main and leave a cloaky alt somewhere to mess with enemy (without any risk or time sink to travel to the enemy systems). And to run those alts doesn’t cost that much more.

Even if you run them on different account, you parallelize your work to pretty much earn at same rate for one or ten accounts, then just keep reaping the 10 time the profits. For example, if one miner takes 3 days to earn his plex, if you send 10 of them in the field, you will need maybe 4 days to earn plex for each of them, but every day after that it is 10 times more the yield, that is how we ended up with all the supers in game.

Back in the day they were rarer, not because of some magic new feature, but because people would at most have 1 alt. These days everybody needs to have multiple accounts to be competitive, this is what I see as problem. Where it took corp effort or really long time to make a super, now you have 5 guys with 10 alts each who keep churning them. You have 5 guys with 10 rorquals each providing materiels. CCP is combating this with introduced scarcity, but again, this is easy to combat with alts. You lost some minerals in null? well, start few highsec mining alts and then just jump it in a freighter…

Overall, the biggest issue is scaling in bigger entities, the bigger the corp / alliance, the greater the effect of everybody running alts. Every problem can be solved more easily with alts, without it being that much more expensive in the long run, hence the issue. I always found it strange that EVE allowed for multiple clients comparing to other online games, it just made little sense on balancing side.

Ofc it is hard to ignore the profits from CCP side, but this narrative that asset accumulation needs to be combated, that there is to much isk in game, to much capitals, etc, all can be boiled down that most of these issues are there since the force multiplier of alts. From EVE uni, apparently hulk can be filled in 5 minutes, for one player it would mean 12 loads per hour, assume EVE is your second job and you do 8 hours per day. That is 96 loads per day, 2880 loads per month for one person.

In comes alliance / corp with alts, lets say 4 miners per person is more than manageable, you have either highsec, or your warning systems, etc… Now each person is pulling 11520 loads per month. According to some reddit post, you need 60 hours of mining with Hulk to earn for plex. So in this example, one person with one account makes 240 hours per month, earns for 4 plexes, uses 1 plex and has 3 plex worth of profit. One person with 4 accounts mines effectively 960 hours per month, earns 16 plexes, uses 4 plexes, has 12 plex worth of profit, but they both invested the same time overall doing same activity, multiboxer just clicked 4 times for each one click of real player.

Ofc sooner or later everybody and their mother will be in titan and we will use DD’s only to kill each other, ofc no matter how many quantum core features you make, structure spam will just continue, no matter how much resources you redistribute, alts fleets will just adapt…

So to sum it up. Are alts bad design for game - sure they are. Are people wrong for using them? Well, no, why not use every edge you can, but at least realize that it in long term affects game very very much, some will argue for better, some for worse, but nevertheless, the effect is going to be even more harder to ignore in future.

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To add, it’s not the issue that person with 4 miners would earn 4 times, makes sense. The issue is that 1 person 1 account has time limits. He can’t on his own mine for a titan in a month. With alts he can do it in a month. So one year goes by, you made 12 titans for your corp since you have alts.

You could argue that if you wanted to stick it to bigger entities, then this is good thing to be able to build 12 titans in year, but bigger corp will have more people with same ability to alt, so they can also upscale their production to again have the gap and have it easier

I dont understand the comparison, sorry.

Sorry I mustve missed where you explain how 10 alts are better than 10 individuals at any given task.

How?

Have you considered that not everyone seeks to compete, and not everyone wants a Titan? And that aspiration for bigger may be a fallacy?

Это убогое обновление еще не откатили? Ну, что тогда ждем еще месяц.

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I think it would be really funny if NPC pirates could rob ESS…

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CCP go ■■■■ yourself along with your ■■■■■■■ mechanics, besides ■■■■■■■ you have to wait 2 hours for payment, so if in a second or a minute someone breaks the bank, then you remain without payments, despite the fact that breaking the bank for 6 minutes.
You are finished giving all the advantages to the attackers and do not whine then that the players are sending you to dick along with that ■■■■ into what you turned the game into

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А вообще кто может сказать, на сколько увеличивается % при битвах? Какая суммы потерянных кораблей дает прирост в 1% хотя-бы? И сколько убитых пиратов дают уменьшение на тот же 1%??? Вы можете предоставить такие расчеты, чтобы можно было ориентироваться в этом?

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what are u saying .people love the new changes .At last eve is going to be healthy again .Time is money i rat for an hour in my wh and i only make 1 bil .You make trilions of isk and still complain .We need more nerfs in nul sec asp.Nerf in salvage in escalation in loot drop from npc, ccp is going to that directions thx god.

What a filthy krab

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why the salt eve has to be healthy again. I only got 850bil wallet and like 120 bil assets while u got trilions .At last ccp is making something for content .The nerfs to nul sec are a must so the game can be healthy again .i am w8 on the nerfs to pi npc loot drops and escalations.And i rly hope some balance to ships like huge nerfs to munins and some bufs to ikitursha and the gaurdians ,if me loosing from 80 munins while i am in my blinky ikitursha fit with my 20 friends is defently wrong.how we manage to have so many munins … ore need to be nerfed again also the ship.I came from reddit to apeal for reason in here but i can see how ccp is starting to hear the resonable people of reddit at last ,and don t give a dam for people like you who only cares to sit on his stock piles of isk while the people of the healthy player base see the game going to ashes.

Like I said, filthy krab

Its the fault of people like you that we need scarcity in the first place.

oh more salt i am elite pvper .KB is always green .Always in small gangs of 20 people , and i know how to activate my weapons and not afk in a site like u.thx god ccp is doing the right thing here ,no mater what u are saying you are the minority here.The game needs more nerfs to 00 .I wish ccp listent to reason way back but it seems at last they are reading reddit.

The only thing youve said I agree with.

i will give u a free tip to improve our pvp skills put your guns to F1 so u can get top damage dealer when like shooting a rattlesnake with 20 ikiturshas .Even the mil sec counts

Is that really the best you can do? If you could make up your mind whether the insult you are trying to aim at me is;

You are saying I AFK missions, or I am some sort of null F1 monkey.

Let me make it clear:

YOU are the Nullkrab

You are the problem here.

You keep thinking I disagree with this? Why?

what do u mean if u group your guns in F1 u save some time to shoot i am always the top damage dealer its a pro tip i dont care what u are .i know what i am .i am an elite pvp wh player with green kb thats is making the game better bringing content in this game

And? So what?

elite pvp ^^