Enough is enough: a newplayer feedback about income drop from CCP latest patchs

Hi all,

As the title stated, enough is enough. For those who won’t bother reading the entire story, here is a summary: recent income nerfs from CCP are hitting too hard newer players like me, and are favorising a lot players with billions of ISK in bank who had the assets to turn the situation into big profits.

We new players are spending an increased amount of time playing, with an increased asset risks on activities for less profit it used to be several months ago, making our progression slower that it used to be a few months ago, and it is absolutely not fair. It will only result in new players quitting, and I don’t think it will be a change for the better in EvE.

Now for the story:

I started EvE end of August (ie 3 months ago exactly), and enjoyed the game very much as an Alpha account.

After loosing a ship I couldn’t afford to loose, instead of quitting I found myself more motivated to go deeper into the game mechanics, isk making methods etc, and paid for an Omega subscription mid September in order to meet my objective, which was extremely simple: Being able to take part on these big null sec battles that make this game so special (yes, current wars make good advertising for this game). And when I mean taking part in wars, I mean playing a role, not being just a moving target with a crap ship, a crap fitting and crap skills that can barely do something. I understand that every help is important, but I just don’t want to be a space war tourist.

I then planned very carefully my skill plans, and tried to make it as efficient as possible in order to progress. As a starting player, it was obvious that I needed to purchase quite a lot of skill injectors to be able to fly ships effectively, and diversify my income making methods, as wars implies loosing ships and replace them. Therefore I needed to make quite a lot of isk to purchase skill injectors as my skill plan indicates a wooping 150 days of training time (I’m already paying an Omega account with $$, no way to purchase plex as well: I’m happy to contribute to CCP success, but I’m not a cash cow, thank you). Objectives were set, path toward them was planned, time to move on !

It took me about 15 days to be able to fly a mining barge for high sec mining. 15 long days of patience and training before being able to mine efficiently in high sec in a procurer. I was happy mining plagioclast several hours a day (due to Covid Pandemia and home office, semi afk mining was possible for the majority of the day for me). But just 2 weeks after being able to fly my barge, mineral nerf happened, dividing by half my daily income. Fair enough, I then understood that I needed to adapt myself in order to continue making a living in EvE. I then started to skill toward abyssal deadspace content, as it seems fun, and profitable, but also more expensive as Gila prices were increasing, and more skill intensive, meaning either more skill injectors so more grind to buy them or more patience.

It took me another good month and a half to be able to properly fly a Gila in the Abyss, and started to make T2, then T3 abyssal filaments during two weeks. It was fun. First filaments were a bit stressful as loss would have been very punishing, but hey, you know what you are signing for! (and it’s also part of the game)

Then, the rating nerf happened, and had a direct impact on filaments prices to the point where T3 were just barely more profitable than T2 (and much more risky). As mining was my first priority then Gila fitting my second, my exploration skills are very lacking, making it not a suitable option for money making. Anyway, I guess that null sec exploration suffers the same problem as abyss, at there should probably be more people Relic/data hunters than before to compensate for their rating income decrease.

My income is stagnating, as you cannot fly abyss as much as you can semi afk mining during a day.

I still cannot use recommended fits for wars, as my skills are not progressing that much to be honest.

My dreams of wars seems farer than before, as I don’t see myself farming for 10 hours to replace a lost ship, whereas I could have replaced it in 3 hours before (which was a ok price to pay for me).

This leads to my current post: why should I bother continue playing? I’ve made dozens of hours of research for information, advises, guides etc, I spent time to skill toward new ways of making income, try new content etc, but as soon as I get to this point, income nerf happen and make this skill plan almost useless, and felt totally unrewarded for my efforts. I was ok to switch to plan B, then to plan C, but I’m getting bored. Why would I bother continue adapting myself to the game if I’m getting nerfed as soon as I reach a milestone? I still need more than 150 days to complete basic training such as Magic 14 etc, and it is now obvious that it will take much more time than expected, as my income now is nowhere near what it used to be for players 6 months ago.

Due to Covid situation, and forced home office, I’m able to play much more than I would do in normal times. I was able to semi afk mine 10 hours a day, or doing 4 hours of abyss per day. I don’t even imagine what it would be if I had to commute to work every day, with only 1h-2h of possible game time. Grind is grind. This is not a particularly motivating activity, then only thing that could make it motivating is the revenue it could provide.

I don’t understand why, as a new player, I should be much much more penalized than player who started the game 6 months before me. I don’t understand why as I’m paying ships 50% more than people who already had a full hangar for far less income compared to what they used to do, whereas at the same time, players who had billions of isk in bank were able to make dozens of billions with the inflation that just occurred with these nerfs (buying tons of ships at the announce of patch, and selling them for a very nice profit. (I can find you at least 10 youtube videos showing that). BONUS: as the situation will probably result in a drastic deflation after the current inflation, it will make their personal fortune even bigger than before. Very well done CCP!

I just don’t get it. I don’t think CCP has a clue about what they are doing when making with these adjustments. They are thinking in a pure economical way, not taking into account PEOPLE’s mindset.

It just made rich players much richer, and poor players less motivated.

It won’t make big corps running low on cash, because they have years of amassed resources i stock.

It won’t push new players like me to buy plex with real life money. I’m already paying for an Omega account, I WILL NOT spend another 100$ in plex, just to be able to fly ships properly.

The only thing that will happen is players like me quitting the game, because it is now obvious that it will take months of unenjoyable grind to just do the same things other players were able to do more casually a few months ago. I used to play 6 hours a day, feeling that I’m moving toward my objective was extremely motivating. Now, there are days during which I don’t even bother connecting. I don’t get it. I don’t understand why I should punish myself with meaningless hours of grinding any more.

I used to enjoy your game, CCP. If I was a 3 years old account situation would have probably been different, but I’m not. I will never be.

PS: thank you for the time spent reading this post.

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The changes are not to make better EVE, but to make more money by CCP.

After loosing a ship I couldn’t afford to loose, instead of quitting I found myself more motivated to go deeper into the game mechanics, isk making methods etc, and paid for an Omega subscription mid September in order to meet my objective

While it was good then, it is not enough in new EVE.

This leads to my current post: why should I bother continue playing?

You shouldnt.

I was able to semi afk mine 10 hours a day, or doing 4 hours of abyss per day. I don’t even imagine what it would be if I had to commute to work every day, with only 1h-2h of possible game time.

You really shoudnt. More time you will spend, harder it will be to give up, and giving up that game is better decision.

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I agree in part. During austerity the poorest will suffer most as rich can rely on savings.

However CCP had a choice either continue to make the in game assets worthless, near every man and his dog having Titans & achieving end game content within 300 days of play or start restricting content behind space poverty walls.

They did the latter as by their math they will make more subs long term than quick selling end game assets like they’ve been doing of late.

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Math? I think they base it on faith it will turn out ok.

Economically, it is not rational. It is psychologically experimental, with future developments being an entropy they have to take a dive in. The game economy reacting and adjusting to different ISK levels in future is an obvious factor limiting what they will be able to achieve in the end. The Reality without Covid being another thing messing with their plans.

It may be like with the new games they tried to develop. Turned out their faith reserve was allocated badly.

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One can only hope that this will be the case. :slight_smile:

No, this was not their only choice. It should not even have been their first thought. Their first thought should have been to fix the issues that titans and supers and structures create. None of them were solved. You can still produce as many titans and supers in a structure as you want. You can still just have as many spare titans docked in a structure as you want. Instead of fixing the Rorquals so that you cannot have more than one invulnerable ship on field anymore, CCP destroyed mining for everyone and most the people who were never involved in creating the issues CCP created in their greed.

End-game content ? I thought this game was Sandbox Open-World. By definition, there is no “endgame”. This game’s been running for decades thanks to the sanbox.
Whats wrong with everyone and their dog having a titan? If they trained or paid for the enjoyment of having it blown up by more experienced players, why not? And obviously CCP wouldn’t mind if I dropped $$$ on PLEX and got me a dreadnought, even if for a few months out of the year as subscription is on a monthly basis.
EVE is like any other product online, it’s ours to choose the grind and get experience and fun along the way or go the shortcut and in the end, as time is money, it also costs both ways.
Personally, I’m not in it to “win” or catch up to veterans or get isk-rich or make it to the top of the killboard. I just want to play the game for what it is and explore all avenues I find interesting and fun. There’s enough content for an Alpha clone for at least two years.

You should’ve spent cash on PLEX first. Omega time can wait, it ain’t going away anytime soon. There are dozens of ships that we can fly as Alphas. Tons of things to do before having to pay for higher tier ships/modules, before taking on higher-level missions and way before even thinking of surviving a large-scale fleet engagement.
I prioritize fun while learning the game. I’d like to own all the Alpha-allowed ships for my race, including the navy issued and have lost them in combat/Exploration/Ganking…before moving on to Omega and train on the specialized ships and then, later, carriers.
And where’s the rush to accomplish those goals? It isn’t like EVE is going away anytime soon.

PS: May I have your stuff, pretty please? :heart_eyes_cat:

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losing*, lose*, losing*

I’m not going to read that post of yours.
It’s not actually necessary, because …

Enough is enough

What are you going to do?

Quit?

OH NOES, THE HORROR!

:smiley:

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There is a balance that people dont really know about, including CCP, the sweet spot, where things are used and build. CCP is convinced they have to develop now the age of chaos, where everything is contested. On an environmental scale its like asteroid falling on dinos. We all know how that ended. With bones of dinos in every biology book.

What survives is not yet known.

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Firstly it is not just Titans that were worthless literally everything was.

People welping battleships & fleets of them not giving a hoot. Cast your eye 10 years back when plex was 300m & welping a 3bn Isk Nightmarre was a $150 loss, now same nightmare fit is 1bn isk & 1bn isk trades at $6. In 10 years an in game asset went from $150 to $6. That is how f’cked the eve ecconemy is right now.

For Titans and supers the numbers are worse.

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Just a quick comment for clarification. I’m not talking about flying carriers, supers, titans etc. These ships have never been my goal, and will never be before a couple of years if I stay in this game.
My goal was more toward heavy assault cruisers & battleships to be honest, and not stacking money but rather than being able to afford loosing ships and replace them on a regular basis.

I don’t argue on the fact that Alpha players have a lot of content to enjoy if they wish. I just meant that this is not my objectives, but I can understand that yours defer than mine.

That is exactly my point: To me, endgame content is war for territories, not flying supers. I think this is exactly the reason why EvE is online so such a long time. I agree with you in the fact that supers’ presence should remain exceptionnal and keep their status of exceptionnal ships. My point is that the true endgame content, war, will not be affordable anymore for average joes & corps. And it won’t prevent people to fly supers within 6 months if they want, it will be even easier for P2W players as plex price on the market will surely rise.

Big corps may have assets to continue wars for months. But afterward? Will EvE wars be won by corps that would have bought the most plex to CCP? does this make you dream?

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Holy Crap.

That is the first sensible post you have made yet that I agree with.

Yes, I remember paying paying 1-5 Bill for a vindicator without fits. Back when plex was 300mil.

It was a lot harder to make a lot of isk quickly back then as a new player. I see many of the old norm returning when it comes to putting things behind the “poverty wall” as mentioned by Brewlar.

However on the flip side back then it was easier to make isk as “the bad guy” than it is today.

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This appears to be what CCP is aiming for.
Increasing cooperation and satisfaction by reducing wealth and resources.

Carebears hate this for plenty of reasons.

I’m so happy this is happening! :blush:

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Plex/sub to ccp has been a factor in major null bloc war in eve from the get go.

Leveraging plex sub & game integrity against CCP was fairly prominent in the casino war/ wwb1.

Probably, but again, my point was to say that It’s a lot easier to say this now, after you had all the possibility to accumulate billions over the past months/years, compared to new players who will just struggle to replace a single ship.

The “strong” will continue to prey on the “weak”, but the only thing that define the strong is that he was profiting from a more favorable economy when he was “a weak” himself. Nothing to be proud of really.

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I simply think your objectives are nebulous at best. Wanting to be able to fly destroyers and cruiser on a “regular basis” is not a clear goal, nor is it constantly feasible to a point where you’d enjoy rushing headlong into a skirmish. How long a time is “regular basis” for you? Do you expect to PVP everyday and be able to replace your losses consistently in one or two days every time?
I think you’d need more than a few years of play, belong to a good corporation and have most skills maxed-out to get to that point. But that’s just what I think, out of my 6-week EVE expertise, lol.

Ten years ago, BS also only cost you 90M ISK.

What? No one has even used BS in a long time because of bombers and because of how difficult and annoying it so to move them into a place of action compared to the much more nimble and resilient HACs. Your Nightmare example has nothing to do with minerals. Minerals were only 120M of the value of the ship before the ore changes. The majority of the value came from the BPC. CCP already reduced the drop rate of those things but because of titans and supers it was still easy to farm the escalations. Hence: It has only to do with titans and supers and structures and with nothing else. And you know who is responsible for that? Not the players. CCP is. CCP allowed this to happen despite knowing better and getting told better for years. They ignored all of this better knowledge just to look cool for buyers. And now the playerbase has to endure this wholly unnecessary garbage they call “fixing the game”.

You know what would really help to make your nightmare more expensive again? If supers could not apply damage to sub caps at all unless they have tons of support.

Not to mention that CCP actually requires you to waste away battleships like they are nothing on things like Keepstars because they designed them in the way they are. You either bring your hundreds of Titans to attack them or get your battleship fleets doomsdayed by the Kreepstar or you employ stupidly annoying tactics like INITs bomb runs on Keepstars. What CCP expects from people according to you is a symptom of schizophrenia, not of good game design.

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I stopped reading when you said a fitted Nightmare cost 90m isk at any point.

I skimmed & read no one flys battleships, despite in wwb2 where Ravens were welping & as stated the welpers could not care as BS’s cost peanuts owing to mineral devaluation & insurance.

Stop wall texting horse sh, kind regards.

I picked faction battleship to prove the need for austerity is not only needed in the mineral market but the entire game.

Assets worth $10,000’s in 2009 go for $100 today. You can buy $40 super cap packs on RMT sites.

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The pixels are worthless.

You can only buy them legally from CCP. Cant trade what you have and check out.

The whole ISK/$ conversion is a flaved one for you as a player. Use ISK/h to stay in the legal virtual fiction zone. The zone that is plagued by bots making money, that CCP cant get rid off, whatever change they will make.

Simply said a new player should not be thinking about how much time they can invest in making profit and paying for expensive losses. They should instead be paying customers and invest their time which is worth much more than the cost of a subscription or PLEX to pay for anything they want, into learning how to play the game and grow as a player for a much better experience.

One day you will be a part of a big successful corporation and most of your losses will be paid for as cooperative activity and you will be able to make much more profit on your own among them to pay for your personal activities or other investments into your clone and player experience.

A new player doesn’t understand much of these things so they really have no concept of how much it really costs them to have to spend more time grinding by themselves for something like PLEX and expensive ships they want to think they can afford to lose easily because of more profit. It shows a real lack of experience as a player, just because they don’t even know their own value as a player and their time in the game yet and focus more on profits and spending.

CCP is doing you a favor because they are making it worth spending money instead and using your time to actually play the game for something other than grinding ISK. Once you invest your time into learning and gaining experience, the wealth and profits will come naturally. If you are just grinding all your time to pay for PLEX and expensive losses you will get nowhere because you can’t invest that time into something more worthwhile like building yourself up as a player to where profits become more natural with ease and understanding the game better to reduce your overall costs by minimizing loss instead of increasing acceptability through grinding.

This is a hurtle every player must get past but not many do and most can take years and some never do at all. They just spend all their time grinding for the most profit they can possibly make to PLEX and pay for expensive losses but they never really learn any better or get ahead as a player.

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