Then that’s your answer right there. CCP shifted the rewards to places where local chat is delayed. A few years ago they gave you that option too, and you said no, so now they nerfed your income to roughly high-sec levels (unless you’re doing high-end super ratting), according to the amount of risk inherent to your environment.
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Can I have your stuff?
I do a bit of c5 stuff and our corp does poch too i like it.
But my point is, is null supoosed to be a waste land ?
Just fill of miners and mass indy players.
The isk to be made just in null alone for the average player is so bad most are honestly better in high sec running abyssals
Unless your a mass multi box mining industrialist null is poor.
The idea that null blocks can just up sticks and move is for the birds. 1 t2 rig in a tatara is 20b so what do the average corps and players do…
They ether leave null or un sub.
So drop the brm and give null some love
Thats my 2 pence of why null is dead
I thought null is where newbies go so that they can live under a super umbrella and perfect intel, low risk low reward, and from there they can go to where there is imperfect intel because either local is delayed (wh or porch) or where neutrals often are present (low).
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I dont get why you would think they are supposed to when as you say
You know, the citizens of those null blocs
If i wanted low risk i would go to hs. No risk and more reward.
I doubt CCP knows what CCP wants null to be, but if they know, they don’t know how to get there.
They reshuffled the rock presence, large scale tritanium mining can now only done in reliably in highsec. OK… Promotes trading. Tritanium and Tritanium based ore also becomes more valuable, increasing the income of highsec miners.
Then they decide half of the nulls don’t need asteroid belts. Miners are supposed to crab on the anomalies now. But quickly, Bistot and Arkanor, once considered good stuff to crab on when there was a choice between those and Spodumain and Crokite and Veldspar and whatnot else, became useless junk that was not so rarely just mined to be jetcanned and not picked up. All that had to be done was to remove those rocks, which caused the anomaly to respawns at a 4-5 hour delay.
Where formerly there was plenty of rock to harvest and the miner cherry picked what he wanted to mine, he now grinds hours and hours only to mine rocks he doesn’t want to have. When formerly, a miner who came online and wanted to mine Crokite would have pinged a few belts until he found a belt with some crokite rocks in it, cleared it of rats, reshipped to his mining ship and crabbed crokite, now he comes online and is forced to remove bistot and arkonor for hours before he can mine the Crokite that respawns basically when he’s no longer online. Same with Mercoxit or Omber.
To get max your crokite yield with a barge, what the miner once needed was some tank and attack drones to handle the rats, and maybe a frigate (venture would also do the trick) to ping through all belts and bookmark the crokite rocks. After that, he just flew his barge 10km to those rocks and started mining.
What he nowadays needs to max his crokite yield is … an orca and 15 hulks. 1 to mine crokite, and 14 to despawn the anomaly… in fact it’s even worse, the lone solo barge would have mined more crokite before the AB removal then all of the excessively multiboxed fleet now can mine.
But the miner doesn’t need to multibox that hard, he can also have 15 corpmates each piloting one hulk. Maybe someone wants the Omber and will trade the miner his Crokite for the miner’s Omber, or someone else wants the Mercoxit (you’re likely not fit with deep core miners if you’re not prioritizing the Mercoxit) … but those are the ores that will be gone in 10 minutes, and then 15 players will mine junk ore that noone in the fleet even wants to have … for an hour?
Most likely, before the patch, 15 individuals would also have be spread out over different belts, clustering on command ships, but there would have been multiple clusters of miners instead of one large blob of them… and despite there being multiple clusters, most AB had no miners. Of cause, this caused the gankers to have to be able to use dscan properly, as otherwise the miners, including Orcas and Rorquals, would have all docked up before anything was tackled.
IF ONLY LOCAL WAS REMOVED!
IF ONLY THE MINERS WERE FORCED TO ALL SIT PACKED TOGETHER!!
IF ONLY WE COULD HAVE A SINGLE BEACON TO WARP TO!!!
Even then, the crappy wanna-be-pvpers would fail to bubble the miners. Or they bubble a 100+ procurer swarm with their solo sabre, HELL YES THERE’s GONNA BE DEADS HERE and then cry they lost the sabre.
Then, CCP removes asteroid belt beacons, and the NPCs there. If you want to rat, do it in the anomaly please. Or go to NPC space… where CCP also removed the ABs btw.
Most Cruisers, BC, dessies, AFs, … that was belt ratting before were not only slippery, but also a ratting yield maxed versions of high-performance pvp-ships. If you were unlucky though, it was a PVP fit that was being used to rat… because … why not? And when you find it and warp to it’s belt, it’s already dozens of kilometers off your beacon… worse, it changes it’s course to max transversal before you lock it, tackles you, and calls its friends. Your “well deserved” crabber killmail turned into a lossmail. That was not a good fight at all.
Can’t we remove those belts?
They’re only farmed by slippery stuff that is align speed and range optimized. Can’t they rat in havens? Most of the belt ratting ships perform inferior there then the “easier to use” Ishtar, and while the ishtar generates less isk there then it’s deimos buddy would do in the belts, it’s so “easy to use” in a haven, that you can outrightedly run a dozen havens with a dozen accounts at the same time, neglecting attention on each the individual Ishtar…
There’s no dozen havens in most systems, either, so to crab a dozen Ishtars in a dozen havens, the crabber needs to spread his Ishtars over multiple systems… which provides the posibility that the Ishtar currently being paid attention to is not in the system where the ganker is in, and therefore the ganker isn’t noticed even if he’s in local.
Hmm… can we remove belts to get people crab harder with Ishtars?
Then, CCP notices that people are clustering in null. Most null is empty but some nulls are overcrowded. Like the industrial index, which is neglectibly low for most null, but wherever it’s not 0.1% is so high corps start considering anchoring their own infrastructure, CCP introduces the BRM as an incentive to push people out of the ratting clusters. So people start spreading out a bit… but now that they’re alone in their system, The Ishtar operators pay more attention to local, making them harder to grab…
Can’t we remove local?
Can’t we get a compensation for the Ishtars docking up before we could grab them?
MTU flipping is for highsec “carebears”, we want our “well deserved” Ishtar killmails! CCP, please do something!!!
Welcome the mandatory ESS. If the Ishtars dock up, we can steal their farm as a compensation. While the lowseccer who failed to kill the Orca he casually discovered will tell you he killed a covetor instead before losing his t3d to a frigate gang that came to rescue the miners, the truely professional nullsec pvp-er gets … a fraction of the isk of a crab. Suddenly, the null gankers start redefining their goals. Its’ no longer about “well deserved crab killmails”, it’s now about grabbing isk. Local is no longer evil, it’s no longer even relevant. If the crabs see the ganker in local, they dock up, if they don’t see the ganker, either because local is once again malfunctioning or because the crab isn’t paying attention, the ganker ignores the crabs and goes to grab their farm nevertheless. After a while, the truely professional pvp-er stops even arming his ship… “if I wrecked the Ishtars, they wouldn’t generate the isk for me to steal again tomorrow”.
On the long term, CCP gets the exact opposite of what it claims to have aimed at: All Ishtars come to crab in the same system, despite low BRM. The truely professional null pvp-er goes to grab his “well-deserved” fraction of the crab’s farm, gets blueballed there and his pod is left there w/o destruction so he even has to wait 3 minutes self destruct timer while the crabs moonwalk back to their anomalies. Back in his clone bay and having to replace his unarmed Stabber or Celestis, the truely professional nullsec ganker goes to Jita to get a new Stabber, and on his way there gets insulted by the “scum in lowsec” who ask him whether he knows how to fit a stabber, and the “carebears in highsec” who ask him whether he knows a Celestis is supposed to be used in a fleet and not solo.
How little they know. Noobs.
The truely professional null pvp-er buys a new stabber, filaments into null again, checks the agency for a juicy ESS, starts moving there, but at some stargate suddenly ends up in a bubble camp of a non-blue “lowlife camper”. They’re null pvp-ers, too, but less professional then him. While the professional ganker starts thinking of the best strategy to make them all aggress before he either dies or reaches the gate, they check his zkillboard and praise him for his guts of picking a fight with 50 Ishtars in an unarmed Stabber. 60 seconds later he’ll be back in his clone bay though, and need a new Stabber…
Eve just doesn’t have any good content any more…
If only there was no local…
If only the ESS intrusion would not cause a notification…
CCP pulls up its’ sleeves: Medium Structures one timer only !
This will generate so much content…
So many streamers will go solo structures…
So many purge fleets will form in superblocks…
So much capital warfare over citadel defense…
The next day, CCP realizes that the superblocks are unhappy themselves, because the odds are high their own medium structures get reffed to come out of invulnerability on a day it’s hard for them to form a 100+ fleet.
Superblocks, and not-so-super blocks, start anchoring less medium structures, but large ones don’t get cheaper, so they simply expand less, while the existing structures get wrecked for the sake of “expensive” (half of a marauder) killmails. Players fear for their assets and start vacating medium structures even before they get attacked, and start basing their operations on the large structures and NPC stations instead, leading to more clustering then ever before. And where they don’t cluster harder, Control Towers make a revival, despite CCPs long term goal to get rid of CTs.
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That was some reply ! 
Um actually xD its the opposite check the newest figures wormhole blue loot has shot up like crazy and bounties are super low.
I like the ESS. I don’t rat or rob the banks, but every so often a stabber loaded with bonds comes through my gate to bring them to me.
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Why play eve while you can just buy plex with credit card?
Just buy plex, noone asked you to play.
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Then give it to me.
You have to be ready to pop that plex shuttle thou.
I promise you can make much more isk in an afk ratting VNI, Ishtar or Domi than you can by sitting in novice and small plexes in a 2m destroyer.
Your promises
Ishtar get 10-15mil ticks x 3 =30 to 45mil an hour.
Faction warfare:
at tier 1
at tier 4
Both better than Ishtar ratting, that is also taking into account an easy to get lp/isk conversion rate so very little waiting for things to sell.
Fw is better by far.
100-200mil an hour should be a standard rate for players so they aren’t grinding needlessly.
Ratting is pretty bad unless you get very lucky with escalations, even taking that vni or ishtar into a c3 wormhole will net you 4x more than ratting, c1 and c2 will be 2 to 3x better than ratting.
This is wormholes with a 700dps ishtar, value’s will be less thou as this is with perfect play which is impossible becuase of drone travel time but maybe take 10% off.
Your ‘actual math’ is a pipe dream of ideal circumstances on the fw side compared with incomplete information for missions and ratting.
For the FW stats you’ve presented you’re not accounting for time lost due to needing to leave your plex, which happens very fequently, ship losses, travel time to refit, respawn timers, time spent cashing in on LP then moving and selling those products, the fact that your faction is in T1 or T2 about half the time, or a bunch of other factors.
For missions and ratting you’ve completely left out income from mission rewards, bounty payments and loot which is the majority of the isk you make from those activities.
FW has it’s moments but you spend the majority of your time making far less isk than what is shown on your charts and most of the time ratting or missioning will pay more.
To say nothing of the fact that sitting in plexes avoiding combat so you have a chance at earning that steady LP is completely mind numbing.
I’ve spent a lot of time doing both. 95% of the time FW is not better ‘by far.’
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Yes it is ideal, but if you loose time due to pvp its worth it imo as you are in a pvp fit and getting a fight is hard these days. If you are chased our of your site while ratting then its not worth it you have to reship and all that.
What is the rest of the incomplete information for ratting? Missioning yea I can understand that will make more but ratting no I don’t see how unless you are using a super or something.
Wow. I haven’t touched mining since the mid-2000s nor have I been in null-sec for a good 10+ years, so that post was very informative. It’s no surprise that EVE seems to be hemorrhaging players when paired with everything else CCP has done to the game lately.
Nullsec isn’t a wasteland if you’re in a half decent/active corporation or alliance.
There are entire regions of space with little to no activity, but that has always been the case.
This is nonsense.
CCP does not make more PLEX sales because of the ESS. PLEX is only worth as much ISK as another player is willing to give to you for your PLEX, so if everyone is getting less ISK from ratting, people will simply trade a similar amount of PLEX except now for less ISK.
I don’t have the numbers from back in 2020 when the ESS and DBS were introduced, but I don’t think that PLEX went down in ISK price. Probably because not everyone introduces new ISK into the game through ratting in null sec. People also create ISK in other parts of the game: incursions, wormholes, later on in Pochven.
So if anyone benefits from reduced bounties in null sec, it’s the people who do other forms of PVE that adds ISK to the game, because their ISK is now relatively worth more and they get more value for their ISK when they buy your PLEX on the market.