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Communications Center General Discussion
128

Yes i’m a fanboy because i provide logical arguments as for why something was removed, fairly typical mentality for the internet these days, shame really

They are providing the tools for anyone to do it themselves, if you don’t like 3rd party devs making these tools then make your own, i mean its not rocket science and it own’t matter if your personal tool is about as secure as a teabag as you’ll be the only person using it

Yes, EVE has evolved, i’m still failing to see the part where CCP have to provide every tool you use outside of the game

Hardly small, anyone with web coding experience can make their own self used tool if they choose not to use one of the ones other people make, making a super basic mail system isn’t going to be that hard really, hell as a novice coder i could probably hack one together in a short while, won’t look pretty, won’t be secure but it will do the job for my own personal use, or hell just use one of the ones posted on github like GitHub - ddavaham/evemail: The Webmail Client of the EVEOnline Universe. or GitHub - fuzzysteve/evemail: a javascript based evemail client where you can see all the sourcecode yourself to see if its doing anything dodgy, fuzzysteve also has public repos for a number of his tools which you’re free to download should you be worried anything of his will go missing

Considering the sort of game EVE is, there will always be nerds sitting here creating tools and have the skills to rebuild something from a cloned github repo, just look at all the stuff chribba hosts and has hosted for a decade now :stuck_out_tongue:

129

Sooo. Now aside from being a spreadsheet nightmare we now all have to have coding experience just to play the game.
“Anyone” is not everyone, what “anyone” does is not necessarily what everyone wants or needs. Take your forum posting as an example - You have entirely unrealistic ideas which you presume to force onto others without any consideration for what may be accurate or not…

Your links, to someone who has no coding experience and no incentive to spend the time and money to learn it (I want to play eve, not volunteer dev) - Are just useless lines of gibberish

Sorry “fanboy” was not the right term, your just delusional.

Yes Cribba hosts a lot but what happens to it all when he finally works out he is over Eve?
Cribba is ONE person - Doesn’t quite fit your “anyone” scenario does it?
CCP boasts over 500,000 players, name 10 of those who can easily write 3rd party apps - I’ll show you 100,000 who can’t.

I suppose my largest concern with CCP handing over so much to unknown people they can’t control is what those people may do with what CCP gives them… I’m sure there are coders out there who are much smarter than CCP’s API team - What happens when one of those manages to find a way to manipulate what CCP freely hands out to do unintended things?
If they are smart enough to manipulate it to start with, they are more than likely able to do so without CCP’s knowledge…

I dare you to say it can’t happen - Show just how naive you really are…

130

Nope, you can just rely on others, like loads of people have been doing

Anyone means anyone, these ideas aren’t unrealistic, you have the choice to use the tools people made or to host your own, neither of these is unrealistic, you just don’t want to do either because you’re under the midguided belief that CCP should be doing everything for you instead of promoting better playermade tools that help build a sense of community in an MMO

Well sure, but thats not stopping you from learning, it doesn’t cost anything to learn to code there are thousands of free tutorials out there, yes it costs time but thats where you need to decide if you want to take the time to learn it or to skip that and use tools someone else made

Not really, if i don’t want to code something i’ll use a tool someone else made, not sit here whining that CCP should have done it

I can name an IRC channel full of them :stuck_out_tongue:

The API only has access to what you give it access to and you can revoke that access at any time, they don’t just get automatic rights to do what they want :stuck_out_tongue:

Not quite how the API works, you might want to do a tiny bit of research first

Quite easily, its a controlled scope with exact permissions and most data is read only, the write enabled API’s are for very limited things like mail, impossible no but it is extremely unlikely, the API doens’t enable direct read/write it all has to go through the API endpoint so its all monitored and controlled, ironic to call someone else naive when you obviously don’t know how the API actually works

131

Or just taking the code I’ve made available on github and self hosting :smiley:

132

That’d be this morning. And if you don’t trust my apps, you could always take the code I provide, and host it yourself, after reading it :slight_smile:
If you can’t read it, well, that’s your fault. You could always teach yourself. And tbh, most of my apps are dead simple.

133

So there we go… just confirming you don’t actually read mails from the users of your apps or at least don’t care what feedback they give. Simply the fact you jumped straight to “if you don’t trust me” is reason for concerns over trust.

The message I refer to was sent on the 21st 10th (only 3 weeks ago) - It was in regard to making one of your apps more user friendly (some might say, USEFUL).
I guess by the attitude of your response here, you don’t care whether your apps are optimal or not - “It works” is good enough (poor workmanship indeed)

The simple “fuk you make your own” isn’t really the response i expected from you - Shows just how wrong you can be about someone hey. All past respect - Gone

And yes it is my fault I don’t understand coding, it is not something that has ever interested me (not having grown up in the computer age, it wasn’t something I saw as necessary). I chose instead to play a game where I could interact with the developers as a paying customer, not trust some random I can’t contact (reliably) and know nothing about.
There in lies the biggest issue with 3rd party app providers - There is no accountability and this one in particular is just chooses to act like an arrogant child.

I think the only “fault” here is your ego. There should be no minimum coding experience required to play eve - And while ever that control lies with an arrogant few and other unknowns - The game will suffer - but then CCP can just keep dropping minimum requirements to play the game to try and keep numbers up.

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134

This discussion is like talking to a student who just started his computer science studies and is clearly overwhelmed by all the stuff he is seeing. You have clearly no idea what you are talking about.

Also pro tip: If you actually work in the it industry, try to avoid making such claims about it’s too hard maintaining an application for over 5 years. No one will hire you if they have to assume your code is so shitty they have to trow away their whole investment after such a short time. Because that’s not how it works and pretty much every software you yourself use daily is prove of that.

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135

Well you’ve yet to prove me wrong so unless you actually plan on doing that :wink:

I’ve given you examples of times where code has to be replaced, you seriously seem to think that applications can be updated until the end of time, even microsoft doesn’t do that with windows updates anymore as the major builds are essentially a different OS at this point, but you’re free to believe what you want and think that every piece of code can be poked to make it keep working when the reality is very different, as i’ve said, do you honestly think giants like facebook have only ever updated code and not rewritten it?

https://www.avantica.net/blog-new/2015/12/17/google-rewrites-its-angular-javascript-framework-0

There are numerous regular instances of updates to applications which completely break older functionality, just look at the upcoming change to firefoxs plugin system that will render all plugins written for the older browser version completely unusable (software i use daily), legacy applications aren’t supported indefinitely and without rewriting sections there can be no progress, the same goes for the eve-gate backend, yes they could poke it but its going to run worse and worse without a complete rewrite

So yeah the tech industry does regularly throw away old code replacing it with new code and it does also refuse to support older applications, i shall await an actual counter argument from yourself :slight_smile:

136

thanks for linking, that’s confirming that two of the companies taking care of there products

and Ima_Wreckyou is correct - there are two of you who’s keep saying that CCP is great and doing well done job. :man_facepalming:

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137

Its confirming that instead of updating their products they scrapped them and rewrote them, it shows that they aren’t going to scale infinitely without having massive chunks removed and replaced making them a completely different application on the backend

I never said CCP was great, i explained the reasoning behind why the application was scrapped

138

Who cares if its update or rewrite when its still there. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

We are talking about deleting stuff and giving nothing in its place. Something else maybe, but not the thing that was there or better.

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139

Its pretty important to the point i’m discussing with the guy who thinks all software lasts forever, and as i’ve said CCP provided eve-gate because there was NO OTHER WAY for evemail to work out of game, this is no longer the case

140

Haha, yeah, if you base your software on some shitty hypster javascript framework you probably have to rewrite… And that is not normal, that is just facebook doing its thing and every other hypster thinking he has to use the same stuff they do because he thinks he has the same challenges… Not really…

Also windows does not get rewriten, the last rewrite was with windows NT because the old 95/98/me was still based on old dos stuff and did not have proper multi user and permission management. It was a completelymanagement different product they produced, and windows today is still based on the NT kernel.

Also speaking about kernels, the linux kernel is now 28 years old and the most widely used OS in the world. They just know how to write software, no rewrite required.

And you think a software can only last 5 years. Lol, seriously. If you are not a complete fool it is easy to maintain a software so it lasts decades.

Also, the eve client? Lol

Those javascript hypsters seriously…

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141

So thats a no for an actual counter then i see :stuck_out_tongue:

The linux kernel won’t look anything like what it did 28 years ago so it has essentially been rewritten :wink:

142

I wonder how would windows or linux work without kernel at all. Maybe we should all start writing our own kernels then? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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143

I duuno. Like Sgt Ocker, I grew up in an age which predated widespread access to training in the writing of computer code. Talented coders were comparatively rare and their work probably commanded stellar rates of pay (except in the former USSR, where you might get an apartment with a bit more space, and a fancy title…).

Now, coders are everywhere, churning out all sorts of work, especially mobile apps these days, and in all probability doing it for little, or less…

The best people will still attract a good wage, though a fraction of what it was when they were rarer. Supply and demand, you’ll say, and you’d be right.

And it’s for similar very good reasons that CCP fails to impress on so many levels. One of them is its insistence on requiring employees to relocate to Reykjavik. You’ll not attract the best all-round talent - not even if you offer them much gold - if you require them to leave friends, family, social network, the lot, and move to Iceland.

Many folks simply will not do it. Why should they, when they’re good enough to be able stay right where they are? They’re not footballers, who also command high wages, and whose contracts include many conditions to sweeten a deal in which they’re required to uproot and trek to far-flung places.

If you can’t attract the best people (particularly managers), you can’t possibly excel these days. CCP is flogging several dead horses. The best that can be said is that they’re doing it with gusto.

CCP clearly isn’t ‘big’ enough (certainly not after the recent layoffs) to have an in-house team whose activities are devoted to establishing and maintaining comprehensive services like email and a dedicated browser. Perhaps, instead of relying on the efforts of well-meaning and talented players, they should pay for such functions to be managed by a formally adopted and professional organisation whose speciality they are.

Time for an increase in the sub; I’d rather that than all these bloody SKINS pushes, and it must be worth very little in real terms in comparison with its original buying power. Popularity is not something I court, obviously…

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144

No, it has not been rewritten, it evolved like every software does. A rewrite is if you trow away everything and start over from scratch

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145

So show me the sections of code that have remained unchanged since the first version 28 years ago, don’t worry i’ll wait :stuck_out_tongue:

If you replace every part of a car then its no longer the same car it was as you’ve rebuilt it using parts from other cars, the same goes for code, every part will have been replaced so its no longer the same kernel it was 28 years ago :slight_smile:

146

You are very well aware what I’m talking about and if not go play word games with something else.

147

No, you implied the kernel was the same as it was 28 years ago

Does any of the original code still exist in the current kernel that was around 28 years ago, which is extremely unlikely as most, if not all, of it will have been rewritten at some point to make it work faster, which is my entire point, you claim code doesn’t need to be rewritten then cite a source that will without doubt have been rewritten in its entirety in the last 28 years