And you think it is somehow normal that a software they write becomes āunmaintainableā just after a few years?
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Easily done when its based on web technologies, tools advance at a very fast pace and languages are always removing or changing functions, the internet pushes software to its limits and without rewriting the entire thing from scratch then it will get a point where you canāt make it work properly, i mean do you honestly think web technologies have stayed the same in the last few years?
Frameworks get abandoned all the time and languages evolve for the better, code eventually needs to be replaced and youāre lucky if that takes āyearsā when it comes to internet technologies
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Yeah, there is.
Its a stupid waste of energy for starters.
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Are you the artist formerly know as Erebus?
If thats someone form the last two and a half years, pass.
Oh dear, I really hope you donāt work in that business. You have to throw away application because ālanguages evolveā? Seriously, what language are you using for development? What the hell are you even talking about?
I have web applications which I created over a decade ago that work just fine and only need minimal amount of maintenance to port them forward to new framework versions. And they are a lot more complicated than a evemail webclient.
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Found a gif regarding Legacy Codeā¦
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Then good for you, not everything scales well enough to still be useful, yes applications that donāt have to access massive databases probably wonāt have changed much, do you think the google or facebook codebase looks even remotely like it used to even a year ago? try running an older PHP script against PHP7 and wait to see whats changed, there are numerous reasons why you would have to abandon something in a modern environment, if youāre still running legacy software then sure it will probably still ārunā but there is a massive difference between ārunningā and ārunning wellā, when your tool starts to impact other services all trying to access the same thing then you had better not be taking 6 weeks to do it
EVE related example, hands up if you remember the killboard software that zkill replaced, that had to be re-written from scratch because it couldnāt handle the sheer amount of data being thrown at it, and the data it could handle it handled badly, there was no patching or minor tweaks that could save it, the entire thing had to be scrapped and written again, it would be like trying to get PHPBB1 to run under PHP7, its not going to happen
There is a fairly massive difference between what I was getting at and what you seem to think I said.
Did you actually read my post or just skim the first line? Actually you couldnāt have even read the whole of the first line going by your pointless response.
I donāt like the fact CCP is forcing players to use 3rd party apps for things directly related to in-game activities. At best they should be optional, not must haves.
NB; This reliance on 3rd party apps will lead to things eventually just not working - As players move on and leave Eve, Apps die, there are many tools out there already redundant or being hacked without source code and CCP is opening the door for this to become the norm simply so they need to employ less people (increase their own profits) by forcing paying customers to trust people CCP has little control over and may just leave or remove their App at any time.
What happens when the author of Fuzzwork decides to move on (and he will eventually), will he give all his hard work to someone else to maintain, will whoever he gives it to look after it, or will he just shut the domain down leaving thousands of players without something they have come to rely on over the years?
Iāve said it before and this seems the time to say it again - CCP is very short sighted (and somewhat unprofessional) when it comes to game design.
Save a buck by getting players to develop their game for free - Good short term business modelā¦ Not so good for the longevity of a business.
Coming soon - API endpoints to modify wormhole activity - Build your own āwhoās hereā app, see at a glance who is and has been in your WH. (moon mining in WHās is the beginning, whatās next?)
PS; So far there is no mailing app (I trust) that compares to what CCP took away when they just shut down Evegate without providing an alternative.
So confirming - CCP is not good at allocating resources for the tasks that need to be completed.
Web team is under staffed and has too large a work load so weāll pass chunks of it off to players who of course are dedicated to CCPās future and will develop Apps for us that will be available as long as CCP manages to keep TQ running.
If you can find the time to develop āa limited clientā as a single person (no support team) - Why canāt the āteamā at CCP who are actually employed to do these things?
Or is it simply a matter of - It is cheaper for CCP to let 3rd parties develop things for their game.
Of course those 3rd party devs CCP hands out things to are so responsible they have contact details readily available on their sites, they respond to user requests and or issues, they are just dedicated to keeping things as accurate, useful and up to date as possibleā¦ (Sorry in my experience they donāt and they arenāt)ā¦
Even a simple āI read your mailā would have been niceā¦
We had Aura for Eve Online EFT and pyfa eve gate, in-game browser for years, then CCP removed in-game browser & eve gate and gave us Eve Portal and in-game āsimulatorā.
So kind of confused if they want to provide us with internal products or rely on 3rd party?
Damn almost forget about in-game music box. They just shite out on everyoneās opinion and took that away.
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They are optional, you donāt āhaveā to have out of game mail access and before eve-gat eit was never even a thing
Nothing stopping anyone from creating a replacement for it
Not even remotely the same thing
They are NOT obligated to provide an alternative, had there been an API endpoint for creating mails before eve-gate was made then CCP wouldnāt have bothered making it in the first place
So you are basically saying that we can code everything what we want, and CCP dont have to do any of those things. That isnt what people are paying for.
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EFT and pyfa were 3rd party tools, pretty sure aura was also 3rd party, CCP had nothing to do with them, the ingame browser was a heavily crippled mess lacking basic browser functionality because they had to make sure it couldnāt break anything, its limitations lead to its removal
Youāre paying for access to omega status, not to external tools for that game, having an active subscription doesnāt mean they have to provide you anything outside of the game
You are always repeating the same line. āCCP dont have to do anything you want.ā Actually they dont have to provide me anything else than a 2d image of a ship and two buttons to pres, get in and get out, and call it a spaceship game. I will repeat again then. That is not what people are and would pay for.
And nobody says that Omega could not use that e-mail service.
Seriously. you try really hard to create an argument here. I canāt speak about PHP and what it takes to migrate from one version to another. But if there is an issue with long-term support and if they break the API so heavily that you canāt port easily, then maybe use something else? I mean seriously that is not normal and if you think that this is because of advancing web technology then you have no idea what you are talking about.
And about the scaling thingā¦ why is this suddenly an issue? The most workload for a webappd does not change drastically and if it does there are a ton of things you can do for scaling before you even think about scraping an applicationā¦ If anything then it is even easier to scale today than it was years ago and there are a ton of best practices now how you can go about it without starting over.
Also we where talking about EVE gate or a new eve mail client and all the things you mentioned donāt even apply there, It does not have a scaling issue since the user base is even smaller now than it was back when they launched it. It was also probably not PHP but some .net stuff since CCP is some microsoft shop and those APIs look pretty stable and probably have long-term support. So it all comes down to bad programmers and decisions within CCP and has nothing to do with technical issues which you try to construct here.
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I doubt PHP is the only language to suffer from feature deprecation and its not the only language subject to software requiring a minimum version of x which can cause other things to stop working, i mean its a pretty simple fact, you can try to blame CCP all you like but at the end of the day, things move on and eve-gate was a relic when it launched, its not about the API breaking something its about something getting broken elsewhere, as i said try to install an older framework on a newer version of PHP, look for all the stuff that breaks and doesnāt work, you might not like it but its the truth and considering the API was completely re-written because it was ancient aswell, at the end of the day it is not CCPās job to provide external tools and even more so when they provide the means for players to do it themselves
Because it finally reached the tipping point? i mean that snot really a rocket science level leap, web apps donāt scale indefinitely and they will run fine until they reach that point
Without seeing the code or server load, and bear in mind, it all accesses the main TQ database so its not just a case of the external load but also the internal load caused by day to day gaming activities, unlike email it doesnāt run on its own the systems depend on each other
Again without seeing the code this is all hypothetical, at the end of the day they removed it, you can whine but they arenāt going to replace it, you know it, i know it, you can either write your own if you donāt trust 3rd party tools or you can just login to the game and do it that way
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Sure but they donāt provide that, CCP are not responsible for external access to the game outside of the game client, they chose to give you mail access and they chose to remove it, they ar enot obligated by any stretch of the word to provide this, youāre paying for access to the game, anything else you get is a bonus, if the lack of external mail is a deal breaker for you then feel free to leave, we managed perfectly fine without it before eve-gate even existed, and i never said non-omegas couldnāt use that service, i pointed out that all youāre paying for is omega, nothing else, alphas are free to create API keys and use 3rd party mail tools just like an omega can
CCP provided eve-gate as a courtesy, they removed it because it was a security liability and are extremely likely to NOT replace it given the API tools, now you need to decide what you want to do about it outside of whining here like youāre in some way entitled to external mail access
Iām sorry but you are just a CCP fanboy who is just way to detached from the real world (or even the eve universe) to be taken seriously.
CCP isnāt āobligatedā to provide anything at all - But for the future of their main income earner they should provide more than handing over control to unknown 3rd partiesā¦
Before evegate - Or before titans and supers or even before battleships and T3ās - Grow up and get a clue, Eve has spent years evolving but is now sadly devolving into a shadow of its former self.
Nothing stopping anyone from creating a replacement for it
Wrong, oh so very wrong. It is only a small subsection of players who can do this sort of thing and on the whole none of those want to hear what others think - Ask the creator of Fuzzworks, when was the last time he responded to a request from a player regarding one of the things he created and has sole control over. And sure I can still use it, as long as I donāt mind using a subpar app that i canāt trust.
CCP as owners of Eve have an obligation to do the best they can when providing things related to game play - By handing much of this off to any random who can write code, they relinquish control over their own game, allowing subpar apps to be implemented - this reflects badly on CCP as a wholeā¦
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