EVE in the contemporary space

Communications Center General Discussion
1

So im sure like many of us I have played nearly every space game for the last 25 years.

And a recent revisit of No Man’s Sky has got me asking the question I think every game dev working on a space game should be asking now. And it relates to something EVE has often claimed to be.
How does this cater to the aspects of the quintessence of a space game for our players?

Eve has its uniqueness the same as no NMS, Everspace, Sins, Stellaris, Freespace and so on.
But I have noticed EVE is starting to fall behind its contemporaries in a few places. And is failing to really let everyone live out their scifi fantasy. But also in doing so, it is becoming stagnant.

Exploration. Is really rather dull and not very unique. And does not in any way feel like you are exploring. There seems to be little RNG or procedural generation implied where is clearly should be. Wormholes are kinda boring.

The abyss, While cool and a great mechanic that could be expanded on for more exploration-style content is being ignored.

Planets - They are in eve basically a backdrop that do nothing. Yet in Sci-fi, they are like 30% of the setting. The failure to improve planets and how we use them in EVE is getting to be a joke.

Player owned structures. - The old pos system clearly has a lot of value to individual pilots and has been basically abandoned. It’s clear there is a demand for this mechanic so its time individual base building is re-addressed. Maybe both visually and how you attain and unlock parts of it. There is huge potential in exploration revamps to unlock more personalization for both ships and pos.

1 Like
2

Remember the core gameplay of EvE is a PvP sandbox and persistent universe. Everything investment has to be balanced by how does it facilitate player conflict. PvE activities are mainly there to generate ISK and materials for the economy. Why would players waste more time than necessary doing it?

1 Like
3

OP forgot:

PvP - EvE Online is richer, more asymmetric, has a tall skill ceiling, and is more rewarding to experience than No Mans Sky.

Single sharded - EvE Online allows more interactions with other people than NMS ever could or has.

Real Market forces - Eve Online has a player driven market. It is a powerful incentive for all sorts of player motivations and interactions. In No Mans Sky it’s trivial for lay people to figure out how to dupe items and sell them for infinite money due to a buggy game, obsoleting the need to ever do anything for money.

Exploration - Procedually generated content is kind of dull and not very interesting. There is too much RNG and procedural generation in NMS. Eve Online has ongoing decades old exploration mysteries like the mysterious shuttle you can scan and other hidden landmarks in tucked away corners, like the pool of radiance. NMS could learn a thing or two here.

Planets - Sure the first time you visit a black and white planet it is eerie, but NMS exploration is incredibly lonely and no one cares what animals you discover. In Eve Online discovering an abandoned Astrahus in a wormhole is like discovering buried treasure. NMS could learn how to be exciting here.

I am concerned for No Mans Sky in the contemporary space, it is falling behind Eve Online: how does NMS cater to the aspects of quintessence of a space game for our players?

No Man’s Sky is rather dull in these regards. Kind of boring. And is failing to really let everyone live out their scifi fantasy. But also in doing so, it is becoming stagnant.

6 Likes
4

:17 million games that have a (pure) PVE focus:
:EVE being one of the very few PVP ones:

Some yokel: “why can’t EVE be more PVE”

6 Likes
5

I like what I read but let’s face it, EVE is only a pew-pew game and has no aspirations of ever becoming anything but a pew-pew game. It’s a fun pew-pew game… when it works.

If it’s story and immersion you’re looking for you downloaded the wrong game.

6

CCP’s game design process is a bit one-dimensional. You’ll note from the other posters so far, their thinking tends to echo CCP’s own - that “PVE is a waste, and not worth expanding in EVE”.

They forget that PvE is and always has been the source motivation for PvP in EVE.

Ganking a ship, what’s the target doing? PvE. Ganking a freighter, where’d all the wealth on that ship come from? PvE. Null struggles, what are they fighting for? The territory they desire to PvE in. FW, what are 80%+ of the ships in it doing? PvE.

That said, you’re spot-on that any real sense of “exploration” has ended in EVE, and that’s part of the reason EVE has lost players.

Thinking not one-dimensionally would say, “what are the problems we have in EVE? Why are players losing interest? How can we solve multiple aspects of these issues with the smallest number of new mechanics?”. Any solutions have to be minimal-breadth and minimal-new-coding simply because CCP has become too complacent and ineffective over the years to actually create code the way they originally did.

In this case, if I were advising, I’d recommend setting up a system where, say, an ancient Talocan system for generating wormholes was being re-activated by something. Wormhole openings to large, temporary systems would spawn in multiple locations. These wormholes would last for a couple weeks, and would generate various entrances into a group of say 3-5 linked systems. Over the period, some may close, others open, but wouldn’t be “player controllable”. They would also be partly unstable so you could only push so many ships through before it de-stabilizes for a while before becoming available again (to prevent mass fleet jumping).

The systems would require players to scan, explore, engage in various PvE encounters, mine rare anomalies, hack various systems for new-old technology. They might require players to either build or repair/activate stargates into the other linked systems to reach all resources.

Anomalies should offer a range of challenges for solo/small gang/medium fleet action. The rewards should be some new tech, rare ores, maybe some special implants, and perhaps the tech pieces and BPs required to build “corporate shipcasters” that would link into a proprietary travel network for a corp.

One such area opens, people fight over it an mine it for a few weeks. Area shuts down, give it a week off, then another one generates. Or have multiples open at once. Each area should have “procedurally generated” layouts and random weather/environment conditions - the Talocan didn’t fully utilize them because they’re too chaotic. And the NPC challenges should have a wider range - with some pretty fierce ones.

Now, you’d have regular new content, new areas, different conditions, actual exploration in a time span multiple players could contest over. And all it would take would be knitting together some code from the original Trig invasion, Abyssals, Pochven and FW. And maybe stitch in a few event pieces.

But don’t hold your breath waiting for it, because CCP really can’t be bothered to even re-work their existing code - so long as tens of thousands of suckers keep sending them money every month for a stagnant game.

1 Like
7

Living with a buddy in a WH. It’s actually most interactive to play from all things i have done in the past 15 years in Eve. Good adrealine rushes from time to time to. Try nomad playstyle in a shattered or something. you’d probably love it if your the bored type of player.

8

Funny thing is. This PVP is what makes PVE exiting and worth while. Without the PVP component the stuff you farm would have no value.

1 Like
9

But that takes effort, it’s risky, requires understanding and you can’t afk it. That’s not what they are looking for, they’re looking to play something that isn’t EVE… in EVE.

1 Like
10

I don’t farm in online games.

11

The thing is, you used to never need to do PvE. Before citadels and moon mining changes, all major PvP was fueled by passive moon goo. People were incredibly active and bitter about fighting wars over these passive income generators, and a lot of fun was had because people could go out and get blown up without having to do any PvE.

Because there were people out to shoot who weren’t doing PvE either.

Once CCP changed it to eliminate, reduce, or devalue all passive forms of income as much as possible, it pretty much nailed the coffin shut for players who didn’t want to do PvE. I know quite a few people who simply refuse „to farm“ and thus just don’t play the game anymore.

People think „PvE is what drives PvP“ but they have causation backwards when looking at Eve‘s whole history. CCP forced everyone to do PvE to fuel their PvP. So, it’s kind of a „no duh“ when people say „PvE is what drives PvP“, because CCP said so. It doesn’t mean it’s right. Even today there are wallet warriors and RMT jerks.

If CCP reintroduced passive income generators, you bet it would be controlled by the PvP inclined crowd and they’d be fighting over it with gusto. I would venture a guess that player count would increase as people relish at the opportunity, and bring back the crazy old corporation concepts of old like the „aescetic monk communist“ ones.

It used to be that you could do zero PvE to fuel your PvP. Now the only way to „passively“ do so is to pull out your wallet. A win for CCP‘s bottom line. I don’t foresee it changing.

Unfortunately with CCPs changes there’s now a certain superiority mentality amongst PvE inclined folk who now believe it to be the core of what makes Eve. Those with long memories aren’t around as much to challenge this young uppity philosophy.

2 Likes
12

So moon mining isn’t PVE? Fighting for moon ownership isn’t PvE driving PvP?

If you were one of a very small percentage of players who were able to passively moon-mine for your ISK.

Like I said, it’s back to one-dimensional thinking for the vast majority of EVErs. “Can flipping made EVE great.” “Nope, ability to AFK mine or anomaly farm made it great.” “No, it was moon-mining, moon mining enabled everything that was good in EVE.”

Trying to base EVE on single-purpose activities available only to a few is what strangled EVE’s growth. Trying to limit prospects for player options to a few specific income-generators drove out everyone who didn’t want to participate in that activity (eg. null farming).

EVE needs multiple avenues to achieve both PvE and PvP goals for it to flourish.

I will agree with Io on this at least - when we had more avenues for player action, we had more players. CCP trying to choke player activities down to the few most profit-per-player ones is what started killing EVE.

(PS: Oh and Io, before you run too far with the whole “young uppity philosophy” and “long memories” bit, keep in mind that my characters have been EVEing for years more than your characters.)

13

I agree with what you posted. It makes perfect sense. The problem I have with farming is that it is rarely worth the time I put in, especially when the items’ worth goes down to a quarter because the price for everything is too ridiculously high. It’s a good game but it isn’t so fantastic that I’d want to farm for hours on end. There were times I did missions on automatic all while calculating how many battles I’d need to participate in another game to reach next level ( I need some 12k points to reach silver, lol ) Either farming is too boring for me or maybe I have ADD…

I guess it’s another brilliant idea from the same people responsible for the dramatic fall in player numbers?

I’m on hiatus for at least a year. I’ve seen, read, learned and done enough to understand what this game was and now is. It’s fun on a micro level, not to be taken seriously - a bit like World of Warships but in space - but it’s very predatory and misleading on a macro level. Not so different than other online games and so can easily be substituted but more importantly I will be waiting for the game to be less buggy. It’s too frustrating right now to be learning new things.

I don’t question how CCP does business. Devs have to eat too. But it can be done in ways that don’t cheapen the experience or dilute the core of the game. Monetization is a two-edged sword and not many game developers can wield it properly.

I think that EVE can be PvPvE and be better off if it’s well thought-out and executed in a true Sandbox and with players in mind.

14

It would be interesting to know if there are new star systems that open up from discovery.

1 Like
15

Agreed 100%. The issue is that a minority of players know why this happening and the current power structure has all intent to keep the game as it is no matter the consequence. The butterfly effect is gone and replaced with a small group holding power and controlling all aspects of the game. EvE is 100% barricaded by game mechanics to keep the overwhelming majority locked into being an F1 monkey or simply a tax and plex revenue machine. We have lost all paths forward and access to better content beyond this due to this cancer created by CCP.
#1 reason in highsec - War Hqs and structure requirements.
This is the foundation of all issues and ensures that only one power dynamic exists.
This is unfortunately controlled by mulitiboxers. (using third-party software to control free omega accounts after selling back LSI)

1 Like
16

One of the places it’s not falling behind is in the number NPCs posting all day like they are experts in everything EVE yet only play the forum. See the number of theses length replies you have gotten and will continue to get over the next few days until turning into a rage filled ad hominem mess and getting locked.

SMH

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

1 Like
17

Why don’t you just leave?

Nobody likes a whiny crybaby.

3 Likes
18

He simply stated the facts. Dont get emo about it. They lack the ability to correct and manage the technical issues and are totally blind on the important game-play issues

1 Like
19

image

2 Likes
20

The balance is in conflict with the sandbox. The more CCP try to balance things, which arises primarily from PvE mechanics rather than PvP, the less of an actual sandbox Eve is. The resulting Eve is highly micro-managed and restrictive.