EVE Online. A player invested $4,500 in the game and was banned

First of all, I would like to apologize for any potentially imprecise phrasing or errors in the text, as I am using machine translation tools.

Greetings, Capsuleers. Today, I would like to share with you some incidents that have caused me considerable concern. I should state upfront that, for the sake of confidentiality, I will not be disclosing any character names, nor will I be sharing direct quotes from the official support site or private correspondence. Instead, I will likely provide only a brief summary of the substance of their responses.

Background:
Recently, a new player joined our corporation—a complete novice who, despite having logged into the game ages ago, had never actually managed to get the hang of it. We gave him a warm welcome and began teaching him the basics, guiding him toward corporate activities so that he wouldn’t be left sitting idle, but could instead socialize and gain some engaging in-game experience.
He was quick to pick up information on the fly and attended most of the corporate events; however, at a certain point, he encountered a barrier: the pace of skill acquisition.

As you all know, skills in the game are—to put it mildly—not acquired particularly quickly. While there are tools available to accelerate this process, they all come at a cost—something we, naturally, made sure to inform him about.

Since this player—let’s call him Alex—was not short on funds, he decided to invest money into the game to unlock a significant portion of its content right away. As Alex resides in a country where direct payments to CCP are not possible, he opted to use well-known third-party services—ones that are widely recognized and enjoy a solid reputation among users. Although CCP considers these services unacceptable, Alex didn’t look into the matter too deeply; he paid a substantial sum for the service, using the money to purchase SP injectors, and by his second week of playing, his account boasted over 70,000,000 Skill Points.

CCP noticed this sudden surge in the account’s growth; upon investigation, they discovered that the user had purchased currency from prohibited trading platforms. Consequently, they issued a warning and confiscated 80 billion ISK. Our Alex attempted to explain the situation to customer support, presenting his arguments, but the support team upheld their original decision.

Anyone reading up to this point might justifiably ask: “So why are you telling us this story? They did the right thing—they banned him to stop him from engaging in RMT. After all, he really did violate the game’s rules.”

And I would completely agree with you—but things went a bit further than that…

A Second Chance:

Our friend Alex consulted with customer support, spoke with a number of players more experienced than himself, and discovered that many people play the game using multiple windows simultaneously. I recall our conversation back then, during which I argued that it is entirely possible to play with two or three windows open and remain highly effective—running missions, engaging in PvP within Faction Warfare zones, and conducting raids on peaceful players—whether in high-security space (a practice known as “suiciding”) or in low-security sectors, all with the aim of amassing wealth.

Consequently, Alex decided to create a new character in an attempt to “cleanse” his existing one—which currently had a negative balance in its wallet. The truth is, he felt reluctant to abandon that character; after all, its Omega status had been paid for a couple of years in advance, and he had invested in the very best +12 XP boosters. However, since playing that character had become impossible, he ultimately settled on this specific solution—even though no one had warned him of the potential consequences.
So, what happened next?

He restored a long-forgotten character—one that was several years old and possessed somewhere between 5 and 10 million SP—and decided to start with a clean slate. He availed himself of the services of an official CCP partner known as Gamazavr. A few days later, he found himself with that same 70 million SP, now allocated to skills finely tuned to his specific needs.
Yet, whenever he glanced at his original character, he felt a sense of burden—a weight he no longer wished to carry. After some time, he decided to simply delete it, erasing it from his history as a mistake. “That won’t happen again,” he thought, and continued playing, day after day.

Some time later, upon logging into the game, his gaze froze on a banner displayed on the screen: his character had been banned for seven days for engaging in RMT activities. His astonishment knew no bounds, as our Alex had done nothing of the sort with his new character. He contacted customer support to get some answers. We in our corporation didn’t sit idly by, either; we verified his purchase history using a service called SEAT to confirm his innocence, and subsequently decided to reach out to customer support as well.

As is often the case with large companies, one can end up waiting a very long time for a response to certain inquiries. We decided to seek assistance from CCP’s partners—those who promote the game through media channels such as YouTube videos and Twitch streams. Yet, with a single exception, none of them were willing to delve into the details; they simply maintained that since the developers had issued the ban, it must be deserved, and therefore they would not intervene. However, that one individual—who found our arguments compelling—promised to expedite the processing of our support ticket; and, sure enough, a response was received shortly thereafter.

The Fight for the Future:

If anyone thought that the response would be well-reasoned—or that our Alex would be presented with logs demonstrating his RMT activities—they were mistaken. As in previous instances, Customer Support responded with boilerplate templates, essentially stating: “We are right, and you are wrong.” They confirmed that the ban would remain in effect, and that the character would be subjected to operational restrictions and assigned a negative balance of -120 billion ISK.

When he subsequently contacted customer support, he was informed that the ban on his new character was imposed because it constituted—in their view—a circumvention of their restrictions; specifically, they considered the act of deleting an old character and playing on a new one to be a means of bypassing a ban, despite the fact that the new character had committed no violations whatsoever. To us, this appeared to be a flagrant instance of injustice: being punished not for one’s current actions, but for what one did in the past. The previous character had been deleted—effectively erased from history—yet the sanctions continued to apply. At the same time, this raises some logical questions: “Why did the negative balance increase? Why did you not warn the player in advance that taking such action would result in punishment?”

And the most critical question is this: “Why is such an action not explicitly stipulated in their own license agreement!?”

The rules of the game constitute their law; however, these rules do not carry the force of law within the territory of the country where they conduct their operations. Furthermore—and this is a principle followed by all states because it is fundamentally axiomatic—everything that is not expressly prohibited is permitted; yet, for CCP, this rule apparently does not apply.

Consequently, Alex decided to file an appeal to challenge this unjust punishment; however, as of the time this post was published, he has yet to receive a response—despite the fact that his request has been pending for over seven days.

Interaction with Support:

As I mentioned previously, several of my associates and I decided to contact support with questions regarding this incident. They are still awaiting a response; however, I was more fortunate than the others, as I at least received a reply. Yet, these responses only served to heighten my frustration, as for the most part, they consisted of nothing more than standard boilerplate replies—such as “we cannot discuss this with third parties,” “we do not make decisions,” “please contact the CSM,” “submit a formal complaint to our legal department,” and so on.

After Alex finally regained access to his account and assessed the full extent of the damage, he read a message from the administration. It was entirely unremarkable—save for one detail: at the very end, the author wrote something to the effect of, “We hope you will soon be able to restore the balance on your account.” This felt like nothing short of mockery. Let me reiterate: the account currently sits at a deficit of 120 billion ISK—a sum that, by rough estimates, would require anywhere from 46,000 to 48,000 PLEX to restore. Upon reading that letter, the underlying message came through loud and clear: “Pay us even more money just to keep playing—otherwise, you’ll be left in the past forever.”

An Outside Perspective:

CCP regularly releases updates touting how magnificently they are combating RMT, botters, and other issues plaguing the game. And when these problems don’t affect you directly, you might be inclined to think that the developers are doing a great job—really putting in the effort. However, when you witness what is actually happening—watching it unfold from the front row—the facade behind which this “battle” is supposedly being waged takes on a rather different complexion. And this inevitably raises a number of questions: “Were any actual investigations conducted before these characters were banned?” “Are they truly RMT traders, or simply players who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?” “And could this end up affecting me if someone in my corporation decides to engage in RMT?”

And this is not an unfounded concern, as we have examples within the RU player community where players were banned without justification—and without any prior investigation. One such instance involves a player who was banned solely on the basis of numerous unsubstantiated complaints filed by multiboxers—let’s call this individual [F12] BigDaddy. Another example is the banning of an entire corporation residing in a wormhole; within that group, literally only one or two individuals were engaged in RMT, while the others were simply community members who had no involvement in those illicit activities.

Conclusion:

CCP is actively promoting their game right now—their advertising is very common—banners on various websites, ads on videos, they’ve released a new region specifically for newcomers, and they’re improving the tutorial. And it looks like they’ll be happy if you, as a new player, stay in their project. On the other hand, CCP is putting a spoke in their own wheel by banning solvent players who are willing to invest not only time, emotion, but also money into the game. The company’s ban policy seems highly destructive to itself and, at the same time, extremely arrogant. One of their EULA clauses explicitly states, “As with account sharing, we always see the illegitimacy of the transaction, no matter the claims, and we are always familiar with both sides of the story.”
In other words: “No matter what we do, we will always be right in every respect—and you won’t.”
If you have read this all the way to the end, it is a sign that you care about this issue and that it could potentially affect you as well. And so, I would like to ask you a few questions.

Questions for you:

  • How would you have acted if you were in Alex’s shoes?
  • Do you believe the punishment meted out to Alex is proportionate to his infraction?
  • If you were a newcomer, would you invest your own money knowing about potential risks like these?
  • Do you think the policy regarding player punishments for such infractions should be reviewed?

Thank you for your attention!

1 Like
  1. I would have bought directly from CCP
  2. Yes, supporting RMT in any capacity is how people like Alex gets caught.
  3. I would invest my money directly with CCP itself, and not some 3rd party who would get a cut of that.
  4. No, but if it is, it should be stricter.
2 Likes

I would have used crypto to purchase a prepaid debit card from any number of such services, and bought my PLEX from CCP. Buying RMT means supporting botting, the foulest scourge on the game we all love.

The punishment of having his account balance set negative for the RMTed ISK? Absolutely. The punishment carrying over to his new character? Also yes.

I wouldn’t RMT.

Seems to be working as intended.

It sucks for your friend, I get that, but frankly he got what he deserved. Botting is godawful and RMT is the reason most botfarms exist.

2 Likes

To be perfectly honest, I would say I am indifferent to the plight of Alex.

2 Likes

Two known bannable things happened.

He bought isk with realmoney instead of buying skillpoints at an official reseller. That was the first ban.
The second ban from what i can reason is about deleting the character with the negative balance. This is also forbidden as you would erase all consequences of the first ban.

I am sure this was explained to him in the first correspondence as it seemingly was also again explained in the second. You need to work the balance to positive again or let the character be. Working it to positive again is possible with other character donating isk or buying and selling PLEX. All in a EULA compliant way of course.

I’m probably going to let you in on a secret, but no one ever tells you, “Dude, you can’t delete a character with a negative balance.”

Basically, the situation seems to be that to be eligible to play the game, you need to contribute another 50,000 PLEX. That might be agreed upon, but PROBABLY in that case, they wouldn’t have to destroy the person who wanted to play.

In EVE, many people say that RMT is bad, driven solely by the strictness of the game rules and the fear of a permanent ban. However, on Discord, among “insiders,” the rhetoric often changes.

In many games, RMT is prohibited, yet you’re not banned right away if you violate something. The picture here is different, and not everyone understands it, as their experience in other projects is different.

If someone thinks they deserved it—when you get banned, for example, for simply sharing transactions with the violator—I’m sure their position will change dramatically, but it will be too late.

Just in case – yes, the developer is acting within the rules. No one is saying this is outside the rules.

This is not the case in many of the games I’ve played throughout most of my life (since I was like 6). In all the MMOs I’ve played, RMT is met with a ban.

If we set all other problems aside, then RMT is the number one bannable issue in EVE. This is widely known and clearly communicated on several spots on the website and there is constant talk in the news and everywhere about it that there are consequences.

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/7370633552284-Real-Money-Trading-RMT

The problem is that once your account is flagged by the first offence, you can already stop to play the game altogether. Since all and everything that happens down the road is evaluated against that flag and your real life identity with prejudice.

You can then at anytime lose complete access by seemingly minor things like receiving or picking up a stolen item from an account hack or bought by someone else with RMT money or if you do account sharing.

This is very complex. Sometimes you even get isk donations from people you don’t know. Don’t let them just sit. Do a support ticket and explain that you do not know why someone gave you the isk and ask the support to remove the money if it is RMT related, so you are clean of possible accusations.

I know it is hard. There is almost no way out of it. Possibly the corp can put all the needed money into the account as needed to balance it out or something if he wants to continue to play.

I hope the translator conveys my thoughts correctly.

I play various games, and many of them ban RMT. And yes, you get banned for it. And that’s normal.

But the way games implement these bans varies greatly. For example, there’s a game called Path of Exile. I know people who’ve been making money there for years. And you don’t get banned for having transactions with them. They sell things there, and sometimes they get banned. I just play with them, and everything’s fine.

In EVE, the situation is different. The ban is the same. The implementation is like, “We suspect something, prove you’re not a camel.” Oh, and we’ll also ban your friends because you shared a corporate wallet.

People are sometimes afraid to get involved with teams in regions with high ISK turnover because you could get banned. The developer—this is a quote from the agreement—always accurately identifies RMT situations, and you’ll be banned without fail.

I’m not against punishments. But in this game, it’s particularly outrageous. Meanwhile, as you can see, you leave the dock, and bots on Ishtars in null-sec are still protected by such strict laws.

1 Like

I think this is mischaracterizing the situation. All ISK that was bought is removed, including any efforts to launder the money. If someone buys ISK and then buys a shuttle for 100mil, yes OFC that transaction will end up costing the person who sold it for 100mil will get banned, same with any other thing that the ISK touches and is not what people would consider a legit transaction. People will lie and try and hide what happened. There are many market traders in the game, and most do not get negative wallets randomly. It is just not a fear people have, especially in Jita.

Well, I didn’t make this up out of thin air. I’ve spoken to various players. I understand that violators will always lie, and I can never know for sure what was going on.

But the processes here are structured in such a way that the developer themselves create a favorable environment for various rumors and speculation. This is especially true for the clause prohibiting public display of support responses. And the fact that if you’re banned for RMT, it takes forever to respond. One player was unfairly banned. They unbanned him, apologized, and gave him a month-long subscription. But he stayed banned for two weeks, and it generally had a negative impact on his motivation to play.

Nevertheless, we intend to show other people through gaming media (I’m not referring to public game pages run by other players, but journals) what the rules are and what can happen in the game. We won’t speak ill of the game, but simply demonstrate that these are the rules, so be prepared. So they’ll be more conscious about which game they want to play. I don’t know if this will have any impact. Maybe it will attract some people to the game, while others will pass by once they learn how punishments are handled in practice.

I would advocate for a change in policy, as this doesn’t help solve the problems. Even in reality, when real heads are chopped off, the problem of “dissatisfied people” doesn’t get solved. Sometimes it even multiplies. But here it’s just a game, and people are risking far less than their lives.

1 Like

Just a side note here: general market transactions are randomized in a way that you can’t predict from which seller something is bought. So you are safe while doing the normal transactions anyway.

However if you try to circumvene it with unusual market orders, you will get caught again. Same goes for contracts, trades and other well known RMT shady methods that are trackable. They will always catch you, so just don’t do it.

And if you don’t intend to do it and you came across something that you bought, but it has a fishy smell, be on the safe side and open up a support ticket so they can investigate it and remove the stuff from your possession if it is indeed fishy.

You don’t want to be accused of RMT if you didn’t plan to do it. So better be safe than sorry and have them investigate it.

1 Like

He was more than compensated for the error. You can’t really ask for more. It does take time to review things, but honestly this is more fair than what most countries do when someone gets accused, jailed, and then cleared of wrongdoing.

Sometimes people are executed (death penalty) and then acquitted. It’s great that no one receives such punishments in our game.

But the presumption of innocence has clearly left the chat in this game.

It hasn’t though. That player was found innocent and was compensated. People are falsely accused of things all the time, but a judge and jury takes weeks, months, or even years to clear someone. People are either jailed or have to post a bond during that time, or in this case banned, so long as there is Probable Cause for the arrest. There was Probable Cause to ban that player, but in the end, he was cleared and was compensated.

In case you are not guilty and can prove it to some extent, at least in the EU there was new legislation passed for this. I don’t know how the law is in his country - and he is obviously guilty for the first offence at least - i don’t know the communication on this that he received from CCP explaining the needed handling of the affected character, so he might appeal the second ban and isk removal, so that the deleted character gets reinstated with the negative wallet and the history cleared of the second offence:

New EU rules for appealing bans or content moderation in online games fall under the Digital Services Act (DSA), which applies to online platforms since February 17, 2024

Under the DSA, if your account is suspended or content is removed from an online game that features user-generated content or communication forums, the game publisher must:

  • Explain why: Provide a clear and specific statement of reasons for the ban.
  • Provide an appeals process: Allow you to challenge the decision for free through the platform’s internal system.
  • Offer out-of-court settlement: Give you access to certified, independent out-of-court dispute settlement bodies if you are unsatisfied with the publisher’s internal appeal.

Can confirm this works.

This part made me laugh.

Shocking plot twist!

:open_mouth:

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So he didn’t invest the money into the game directly, but through RMT into other players, got the punishment this warrants, and decided to delete the punished character instead of trying to redeem himself, essentially doing ban circumvention?
Yeah I do feel like he should be unbanned.

Where did this guy buy plex or isk? It sounds like they are the source of their trouble.

Is buying directly from CCP difficult in some countries? I know at one point you buy eve online time cards and codes from amazon.

It really just sounds like your friend got scammed and bought from an RMTer or unofficial vendor.

I haven’t gotten further than this, and I haven’t read other responses, but what you’re describing here is exactly what circumvention of the ban means. There would be no point in punishing players if they could just delete negative balance characters and make new ones without consequences. That the new character committed no violations is irrelevant. The player, the human, ‘‘Alex’’ is the one who committed violations. Ergo it is perfectly fair that all his active characters get banned/punished. The ‘‘sanctions’’ should continue to apply to Alex’s new characters and the increase in negative balance was likely due precisely because he attempted to circumvent his restrictions.

I’m pretty sure it’s in there. I’ve read it. It does mention that trying to circumvent or trying to bypass your bans/account restrictions in any way will result in further actions against one’s account(s). Something like that. Go read the EULA again. (But even if it wasn’t – it’s what is called common sense in English language).

EULA is basically a private contractual agreement between the FC and the user. It’s not law, although it operates within law. As such, if a user wants to keep on using the product made by FC, he has to abide by the rules set forth in EULA. You can’t appeal to a court in your country, for example, and force FC to cancel EULA for a user of that country. That’s not how this works.

FC decides the scale of damage, so I defer judgment on this one. But I see nothing in your post to suggest injustice done to ‘‘Alex’’ by FC.