Football not soccer, only american can call it soccer while called football game which used hands to play for most of the time.
No, this is much bigger than any previous summer drop.
Indeed…so this is even worse. We’ve gone back and time and looks like we will continue to go backwards.
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I believe the Ecosystem is fine to be honest, in the sense of where we want to go. I have speculated my own opinions of end goal, but if reducing inflation where a new player can actually afford a new ship (not today think future) without feeling overwhelmed, putting in a industry system where you can change the price of capital ships without affecting the price of most subcapital ships, I think CCP has done a great job. And I honestly hope the changes continue. Meaningful structure to a ecosystem is needed, and the changes have brought that. And even better those changes where implemented in such a way to be modified often if wanted.
Is more rebalancing needed yes, is more starvation needed yes. To fix a old over supplied ecosystem will take more time and I think anyone here is giving credit to. Remember just a year or so ago you could mine normal minerals out of a moon in a 0.5 system…remember. We have been in the starvation period about six month and I honestly think it needs 6 more to correct what the intent is. And no I don’t enjoy it myself, but I do understand what needs to be done to make the game more meaningful.
I normally say there is a balance in there, but in this case there isn’t. We have to go through hardtimes, starvation and frustation to fix the future of the game.
Cheers,
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Well, I agree with a lot of your points, but I have a few things I wanted to respond to.
First, starvation began in December 2019, when CCP started tinkering with ore availability in null.
Second, whether more starvation is needed or not, the fact remains that much of the player base is sick of it. It’s kind of like the pandemic. We have not crossed the finish line yet, and we should continue to do what we can to minimize the loss of life, but people are kind of losing their minds with all the social distancing and all that, and are ready for things to turn back to normal. Well, I think people feel the same way with scarcity. Of course, the main difference here is that no one’s lives will be jeopardized by us not rigidly adhering to the measures designed to fix Eve’s economy.
Like I said, I’m no economist, nor do I have access to all the metrics that CCP has. So, I can’t say one way or the other what’s the best course of action. All I know is that it feels like we went from feast to famine. Would be nice if could find a nice middle ground before we hemorrhage away half our player base.
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You are correct it did start in late 2019, how time flies. I think there was so much excess I didn’t really start to feel it personally until the first of 2021, and harder since the new industrial changes a couple of months ago.
But your points are valid. What can the community take before the game is simply not enjoyable? Or better question, how do you continue to fix the ecosystem, all the while keeping people from not enjoying the game.
Tough questions, I think. most want to be a baker and eat the cake, and that won’t work. Something would have to be sacrificed. If CCP continued to work on the game dials, like ships, ore anomalies, and go into ship equipment and so on there could be small changes that would be less impactful. Adjusting those dials while pulling plex from the market could be slow changes in the right direction that would be less felt, but would take maybe years to achieve the goal.
There could be other creative ways. Maybe a great faction war and the factions need the capsuleers to build ships, equipment, rigs, ammo to support their war efforts. Or shipyards are trying to Unionize and are on strike. And you get a mix of LP and isk, so you don’t break the isk economy, but you essentially eat up excess minerals in stock.
No real silver bullet, and possibly always thinking of the blanket type plan that covers the entire Universe is the flaw of the plan. Each region could have something going right or wrong, but all supports the bigger plan.
Cheers,
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I can defiantly support that .Also i can add for every person that quits eve , the eco system is getting healthier ( his assets isk are removed from the game ) .In real world people that are starving and feel economic depression on their countries are generally happy .Now people have the option to pay a monthly fee to experience that in their free time . Best post so far man congrats , the eco system would be healthier if pcu goes 10k and bellow for sure .
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Don’t worry the sky isn’t falling. There was a decline in numbers, but I think expected after the global pandemic. I think some much-needed time out of the house, away from the screens, and enjoying real life. And fall will come soon enough, it always does and you will see the PCU going back up.
Fly safe
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6 more years and CCP might start hurting the isk whales, 6 months will only see them gather more isk as they slowly seed years of stockpiles into the market to maximize profit.
I disagree on the starvation, it only hurts newer players while those with huge isk reserves prosper from it.
Personally I’ve made more isk during starvation than I did in the few years before it began and I haven’t touched my stockpiles yet.
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Yes, that is the data unknown, how much is out there, and what is a good estimate of how long it would take to deplete those stockpiles. Beyond a radical change, for example, changing all base minerals, maybe there is no way around it.
It would be interesting data to know, maybe not tied to the player, but bulk numbers would be interesting to have a break down between High, Low, and Null. I think each location would have meaning or the intent to the market the mineral means.
Yep, exactly what’s happening in my situation. A nobody like me who has been away for 5 years, came back to find that my estimated assets back in Nov 2020, bloated by the Industry change (which I disgust) by almost double 2 months after the changes kicked in. I don’t find neither the incentive nor need to use my stockpile at all (I’m a packrat type of player, I pickup anything that’s within my ability to acquire and stockpile them).
I’m not even Eve Rich by any standard and starvation don’t affect me with real minor adjustment to my playstyle albeit (more limited and less enjoyable to my preference), I’m self sufficient and just stockpiling more trash and wait out to see who surrender to the suffering (Starving the Players or Player Starvation).
So think of what effects does it have on all those trillionaires? Less production = less destruction, less isk velocity, less market activities. The changes mostly affects the inflow of resource generation at the cost of player count. Non of them are affecting nor forcing the exhaustion end to an equivalent scale, so you are going to always have surplus of stockpile vs depletion no matter how you tweak the composition of ores, location of the moons/gases, bounties, WH sites, Abyssals, Incursions …etc. (Arguably all PVE activities that are used later directly or indirectly for PVP).
Going by the approach, PVE aspect of the game should all just be removed and players just buy ships with cash and fight in arena instead (yep, skill system can be totally removed), in this case, Eve don’t need to even have to maintain such large team of devs and directly earn cash from pixels. Who knows this isn’t what’s all in PA/CCP’s plan and they are still selling skills for cash + keeping the PVE aspects of the game alive just to milk the players for as long as they can before they announce the final big change?
We all don’t deny the problems exist and the ecosystem has been suffering from unhealthy issues due to poor design decisions over the years, yet maybe the real issue is the consistently shortsighted poor design decisions that are still being made which never really (intend to) solve what’s ailing Eve. The constraint the Dev teams impose on themselves, may it be ego, pride, stubbornness or whatever, is the one preventing more optimal approach of balance between fixing the sandbox ecosystem and not hurt the sandbox’s core (values).
I wasn’t here a year ago, I remember you could never mine no sh*t from moons in HS since I played from 2008~2015 (I might be wrong, but that’s how I remembered)
You could moon mine in 0.5 systems and down. So not all high sec systems. I used to moon mine in high sec but don’t anymore. After all the redistribution I am not sure if they kept 0.5 system in the moon mining business or not to be honest. It might be a low / null activity only now.
That was the correct approach in the first place. If there are too many stockpiles, the way to get rid of them is not through deflation, which makes existing stockpiles even more valuable. It is to inflate them out of existence. Just establish a healthy distribution of asteroids, and announce “From now on, ships will be made out of New Tritanium, which can be exchanged for old tritanium at a ratio of 1:1000,” etc. It would have been messy and lost a lot of subscriptions (which seems to be happening already), but it would also give newer alliances a feeling like they had a chance to catch up, and most of us probably wouldn’t be complaining about it two years later.
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CCP has all that data. They know who has and where all the stockpiles are.
And so far with all the changes since 2019 they have done nothing to deplete those stockpiles. In fact the ONLY thing CCP has achieved with scarcity is to increase the value of those stockpiles.
I haven’t produced anything since 2019 (when scarcity hit nul) yet my isk/assett wealth has gone up substantially, moreso since the most recent changes to blueprints.
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CCP leadership has never been known for its “foresight”. Over the years CCP has squandered one opportunity after another with Eve development, which eventually led to the brand being sold to a company who’s philosophy is P2P.
CCP spent years making poor judgement calls on the development of their core income (EveOnline) and now the game itself and players are paying the price.
Yes I too see P2P as Eve’s future, sadly this will mean I have to find another game as will many others who’s main activity isn’t directly pvp focused. Industrialists, market players, miners, pve’rs, pirates and many other play styles will disappear along with many players/subscribers who have enjoyed those play styles for years.
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It is to weep. Why have my ships been nerfed so many times while CCP tries to balance the game? Try nerfing the playstyle and leave the rest of of us who are not abusing the game play to still find a nitch in the game?
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Ah IC, well that’s what I liked about Eve till RL prohibits me from playing back then. The freedom to explore things at one’s own pace, niche by niche, playstyle by playstyle. Solo or with other people yet everything gives you enjoyment and accomplishment as you work out your preference and approach to each’s own likings to different aspects of the game.
THAT was the Golden Age of my time with Eve. it wasn’t perfect then but I can’t say anytime during the past 5 years should I have been able to play, I’d have enjoyed Eve as much as those earlier years, I certainly feel after returned, my Eve experience never matched back then.
Maybe I’m much old(er) now, but Eve was VIBRANT then, even with Monoclegate and bunch of dramas, now it’s just more dull and static like everything is grinding to a slow halt (or breaking apart).
Like some amateurs wanting to mod and supercharge a car, they took it apart and make shiny/promising changes but cannot remember how to put the parts back so they duct-tape it with GLITTER in the last minute attempt to have it appeal to its audiences.
I’m not sure CCP is willing to “balance” (nerf) the real problem play styles for fear of further alienating those groups and the very real possibility of mass unsubbing.
Think back to what happened during CCP’s little experiment with BlackOut. I’m pretty sure CCP don’t want to risk that sort of backlash again by making “actual” “real” change to the blok play style.
When there is only 14k online and 3k of those are Goons sitting in 1DQ. Another 2 or 3k are Papi waiting to see why Goons formed. CCP rightfully has to think hard about nerfing a play style they themselves encouraged for many years.
The only real direction CCP has available to them is just nerf everything and hope it eventually trickles down and affects the target groups.
I’m just not sure the rest of the player base can or will be willing to be bled and sacrificed by CCP for the years these changes will need to be enforced for meaningful change to occur.
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I believe the idea was to raise the price of the minerals to a point where people would want to sell them. I could be wrong, but seems to be it.
Not everyone that mines produces, and not everyone that buys minerals produces from BPO or BPC. Meaning the thought that a player needs to produce a quota and can’t mine as much, and therefore would deplete their stocks, I think is a possible flaw in thinking. Industy is easy, you load a BPO or BPC, if mineral prices are higher than the sell price of the product you don’t build, and if you need you purchase from market.
I believe the future will be fine for the game. Pay to play (P2P) is a model that has to be used. We do want to create some revenue for a game so that we can continue to get updates, fixes and new content.
I don’t think the roles in the game will change either. I think CCP knows that PVP isn’t the only role to play. If they wanted to make a PVP space game, they could build from sractch much easier than morphing Eve into that.
All opinion though.
Cheers,
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