When you say “many people”, the numbers seem to disagree. Zkill suggests that this is a very small number of people using this - like resources wars small. Sure there are always some folk who go against the grain - hell there were some who liked resources wars - but that’s no point in favor of instance pvp.
Also it’s no where near fw. In fw sure there are ship restrictions but it is directly connected to the outside - you can see through ds who is in them, what they have and you can bring as many folk you need into the site to fight. In abyssal sites on the other hand you can’t see who is in them, it’s one v one, and whether you live or die is largely luck based - did they bring a ship and fit that can counter your ship. In short abyssal looks like pvp but it has more in common with dice.
Finally any instances effect the sandbox. Fw are not instances because there are no barriers to somebody getting to the correct ship type and chasing after anyone in them. In contrast this abyssal crap removes people who interaction with the eve universe for significant periods of time. Removing people from the universe hurts open world pvp.
I don’t want this, I think it removes players from the sandbox making EVE less than it should be,
Just saying that it has to be a balanced ship PVP instance because people get hurt “feelings” when they are killed because they are ganked, outnumbered, outgunned, outclassed, neuted, emc’d, dampened, tricked into combat, have no neutral rep and the multitude of other ways people get blown up because eve is “unfair”
Guess what, and take notice CCP - it’s a better game that way.
As he said, the binary nature (on/off) of the system is a large part of the issue. Participation is adversely affected when people run sites only to find at the end that the proving grounds gates are turned off. When it goes on all week like has been the case for USTZ, people will quit trying. You can see from posts here and on reddit that a significant number of people were excited to try this feature, and are disappointed that it is unavailable for hours at a time every day.
It was bound to be this way. It is a PvP Queue that you have to PvE to get too and because of the 20 minute limit you can only be in the queue for 20 minutes.
Then split the queue for matchmaking like trace level and you got something that won’t even pop when new.
It was a bad idea and the result was just what you expect from bad ideas.
Well, CCP sprint teams often are tasked (or task themselves) with developing content without checking the essentials.
Lessee:
35, say 40,000 peak concurrent users.
1%, say 2% running Abyss sites = 800 users running abyss at a given second (800 users/second)
1,200 seconds per site + 1,200 s per PvP queue = 2,400 seconds/site
2,400 seconds/site / 800 users/second = 3 site chances per user per second.
Since a user needs 2 chances to PvP (his + the other players) this means that on any random second there’s a 2/3rds or 66% chance of actually concurring with another player running a site and -maybe- willing to PvP after it.
This, as a rough estimate for peak concurrency time.
It would not be CCP if they didn’t gated a matchmaking PvP feature requiring high player concurrency behind a niche PvE activity.
Of course, maybe they thought that Abyss sites would be a lot more popular than they are so it made sense to put PvP on it.
But in the real world, this PvP feature on top of running Abyss sites was DOA.
(And by the way, Abyss sites is what CCP had envisioned for Apochrypha and the addition of wormhole space. Players weren’t suposed to dwell in WH…)
It seems that we’re both using the same argument to back opposite opinions. When I say “many people” maybe I should say “enough people”, in the sense that there are more than enough people hoping to participate in this feature, but the implementation of gate-spawning is hindering that participation. At the same time, it is a relatively small number of people because it is a niche playstyle by nature, which is all the more reason to suggest that it does not have a significant impact on the sandbox. I am not logged in right now, but if I were doing Abyssal PvP, I would at least be in contact with the ecosystem by causing interaction and ship-loss… better that there be more pilots logged in and fighting in the abyss than those same pilots simply not logged in, as long as the rest of the sandbox couldn’t even tell the difference.
This easily becomes a convoluted discussion topic because we keep crossing over between the philosophical implication of this “type” of feature, vs the current actual existence of Abyssal PvP and how it’s currently working. Suffice to say that I am a fan of it and my assessment of the implementation is that there is an objective shortcoming with the gate-spawning system.
I would also urge those who are not using the feature themselves, to be mindful that opposing it strongly might harm the playstyle of others more than it benefits their own playstyle. Consider how much effect this feature is actually having on you and your in-game surroundings, because there is a difference between the concept of instances as a whole and the particulars of this feature that we have right now.
(regarding FW, it’s an example of how the line between sandbox and anti-sandbox is blurred because there is a ship-filtering gate, which is a mechanic-based control over the scope of player interaction… but apparently it’s not strong enough to evoke the same kind of reaction as this abyssal system… try a thought experiment to determine how many tweaks you’d need to make to FW plex mechanics before it mirrored the abyssal pvp system, and decide where you’d draw the line in terms of it becoming anti-EVE, because it’s not as far off as some might like to think)
Because it requires planning and effort, and it’s open world where people play an MMO and surprises happen. Arenas just cater to the instant gratification gambling addict crowd, like the whole Abyss concept, which comes as a game inside a game.
Sure it is attractive, you see a lot of known chars involved in the killmails. If my hardware would properly support Abyss sites, and there would be a high chance of PvP, I would probably doing it all day … this is dangerous, it has the potential to dry out any solo and small gang PvP in EvE.
I think there is only one way forward unless scrapping this … make the PvP encounter the mandatory last room for every T3 … T5 if a match is possible.
Your personal attack/name-calling is unwarranted, unfounded, and against the guidelines of this forum.
I will elaborate on my oversimplified “stop playing” comment: I have many jump-clones with various implants in them, mostly in locations that are fairly far from Jita. In order to supply myself with what I need to do Abyssal PvP comfortably, I need to be in Jita and in an empty clone. So, depending on the day and time of my play-session, if I have made the effort to prepare myself for Abyssal PvP and then the gates suddenly stop, I may not have the time to go back to another playstyle for the rest of that that session. Additionally, if I did not get my fill or finish trying out a new ship, I may then want to do more on my next play-session, leading me to simply quit on the spot. I made an overstatement by using the word “everyone” since that is an over-projection of myself onto others, but I would be surprised if I’m alone in this (among those interested in Abyssal PvP). Currently, there’s also the added psychological element of frustration because the closing of the gates EVE-wide is completely illogical considering the alternative methods of controlling loot-farming that are possible.
The only issue is how the gates are spawning. The feature is here. People like myself want to engage in it because it’s new and exciting. Its use will settle over time, but only if we get a chance to get our fill of it… I’ve played a lot less EVE overall since I’ve been struggling with the gates problem. If I could have just binged on it for a week, I’d probably already have been back in FW more. If the reason for locking the gates is to force people back into the “real sandbox” then it has failed in my case.
I reject the notion that the feature caters to “the instant gratification gambling addict crowd” because I do not identify as such, and I was very excited by the feature. In fact, I absolutely loathe RNG and things like loot-crates (things that I consider gambling). And I do dislike the random nature of pairing players for the abyssal fights, but it’s acceptable for now, and is massively overshadowed by the gates problem.
I can confirm without a doubt that Abyssal PvP requires its own flavour of planning and effort. Additionally, I don’t consider it a game inside a game, at least not strictly, because it requires preparation and assets that come from the sandbox ecosystem, followed by player confrontations with real risk. The risk/reward is uniquely measurable, which gives it a different feel… perhaps this is part of why some people dislike it so strongly… but it’s certainly not a playground where you can go and play EVE outside of EVE. Anyone who wants to run the EVE simulation in a riskless playground, can simply log onto Singularity. SiSi has been around forever, so why haven’t leagues of players left to spend their time fighting over there? It should be obvious to everyone who plays EVE… we all play because of the sense of risk and value behind what we are flying and what we might kill. This essence of EVE is not lost in the Abyss, and in fact is focused and heightened in a specific way.
I am glad that despite your disagreement with the concept overall, you came to a similar logical conclusion as I regarding the gate-spawning mechanics… I don’t think an encounter should be forced, because that would completely re-purpose the existing PvE into PvP-only, but the access to PvP should be present at all times… the most anti-EVE thing about this to me is that due to the nature of abyssal usage, the entirety of America (the full continent) is locked out from a feature that European players are engaged in… dividing the playerbase for reasons that have not been acknowledged or addressed. It continues to baffle me.
So just to get this straight…the whole if you were training a Precursor ship skill and it got stuck and stopped training because CCP messed up the skill code when they added the new skills…are we automatically getting reimbursed the SP we didn’t train while it was paused, or is that something we we had to log in to find it paused as the only way to get the SP we lost? Asking because i was out of town for that and only reading about it later…
Leave it optional.
There is no reason to force people in to pvp that don’t want to pvp.
However if you’re okay with traders that never leave Jita 4-4 suddenly getting ejected 10k off the docking perimeter with their assets then I would be okay with abyss mandatory pvp.
FINAL REMINDER: STARBASE NAVIGATION STRUCTURES WILL GO OFFLINE TOMORROW!
…and so a chapter is closed in the history of Eve Online.
How will everyone feel when this message appears : Final Reminder: Tomorrow will be the last day for Eve Online as the servers are going down permanently?
So I just noticed today, and I’m not sure if it’s an error or not, but is there a reason the Drekavac doesn’t have a +50% Command Burst range like all other Combat Battlecruisers? The official update doc from 2016 on the Command Burst mechanics might cause some confusion.
I find myself not being able to participate in what is brand new on this eve it is a very beautiful and very wonderful thing to be participating with. There’s often capsule there’s who don’t join into when there’s a faction about to take over the whole Citadel let’s say if it’s galanti. But this is Marcos senior. And my sons are in the galanti and I am what widespread family with my girlfriend Andromeda. but I do see a lot of options with everything but how can you bring people to these events when they are not officially on the front where people can actually invite themselves or participate and if there’s a group that will participate and will play with other players.
This, I am completely on board with this. Since the day they took Skillpoint loss out of podding I wanted it back. As you said, it was significant, you had to pay attention a little more. After they took it out it was like “meh pod me who cares no loss”, same with the T1 Cruisers revamp… “it’s cheap who cares”. Bring back podding a thing that could impact the person’s game play somehow (Like hearing a super pilot say they lost Titan level 5 to a podding)
could meet people not wanting to PVP/PVE in that very plex
maybe something i’m missing here.
So, basically, what makes EvE an EvE: somehow unpredictable environment for PVP. And compare this to Abyssal: it lacks all the things which makes PvP interesting.
I was knowingly and purposely boiling down FW to simple terms in order to communicate my point. Of course there are differences, and FW is open to many more unrestricted sandbox variables, but it’s definitely a step in the direction of what abyssal PvP is. Take a few more steps and it gets very similar.
Additionally, in my experience, and with the PvP that I seek out (using FW as the method of finding it) it’s possible to find content that is similar to what the abyss mandates. And that’s the point that I mean to make with my FW comparison… I personally find it the MOST interesting when there are some knowns on both sides, forcing a level of equality to start with, and then you have to outsmart/outplay your opponent within that scope. I have become active in the tournament scene over the last few years, and it’s been some of the most exciting and compelling experience I’ve ever had in EVE.
This is obvious, but: if you don’t like the concept of abyssal PvP, then don’t participate in it. What seems to be less obvious is that: the strong outcry saying that the abyss is anti-EVE and breaks the sandbox, seems to be coming from a place that is not considering the reality of the feature as it is now… which is that it is nowhere near impactful enough to “harm the sandbox”. If you can cite first-hand accounts of times when the abyss stole content from you, then those should be reported… because if more features come along and it does get out of hand (as seems to be the fear) then I will speak up with you, against a true threat to the sandbox… this just isn’t it.
The reason I posted here in the first place was to speak out against the implementation of the gate-spawning mechanic, which prevented me from participating in the feature that I was interested and excited for.
