Something came through my mind while mining (not a bullet this time).
Do we have any informations on how the different empires of EVE (excluding Sleepers, Drifters and Triglavians) came to develop modern weaponry ? The most interesting could be to know how Amarr theologists managed to incure pure divine rage into their lasers, and how Minmatar are still flying around with overheated metal chunks.
Does anyone have some infos, or a source where I can learn more about that ?
keep in mind that many thousands of years, probably tens of thousands of years ago (enough time for the jovians to go through multiple incarnations of their empire) passed since the eve gate collapse.
the four main empires evolved in isolation from each other, but as far as how they redeveloped technology. probably in much the same way we have developed that tech the first time around.
as for why they each developed their own distinct technologies. mostly it would be cultural and historic differences.
Amarrians likely did go through the phases of powder weaponry etc, but focused on lasers due to the “holy light” imagery. gallente focusing on drones makes sense given their individualistic bent, and the whole “sanctity of life” thing. why put your people in danger when you can have robots do it instead.
caldari utilitarianism came from their long history of conflict with the gallente, they are masters of mass production but their corporate culture likes to keep things cheap, so kinetic missiles that rely on just slamming into the enemy instead of fancy explosives is a good middle ground.
Minmatar where set back in their development by thousands of years by the amarrian enslavement (IIRC at the time they where conquered they where the most advanced of the 4 empires, but where not unified or expecting any sort of outside attack on the scale the amarrians launched) so now they use the most “primitive” of the weapons systems since they are still trying to play catch-up.
Matari weapons are quite good, they basically just give the projectile a push. You don’t have to waste a bunch of energy to make things hurt, like blasters or lasers.
As is common in EVE lore, info is generally scattered around here and there.
My advice would be to search “weapons” in the fiction portal. Many results seem to be about ground weapons, but for example one result is the chronicle “war drones on” which explains a bit how Gallente came to rely on drones in warfare, dating back to time when only Caldari had the pod technology, before it was spread between empires.
@Bjorn_Tyrson did give a fairly good overview for preferences IMO, Amarr definetly like the “divine wrath of God’s light” aspect of lasers, Gallente historically have less volunteers for military so automation is essential to reduce manpower needs, though they are also in your face with extremely powerful blaster weaponry, backed up with advanced armor repair systems. Caldari similarly prefer to avoid loss of life and love efficiency - long range weapons are preferred, and hitting hard.
It is a common misconception that Minmatar technology and weaponry is inferior, but you try to launch shells the size of a bus (Naglfar’s projectiles are 2.5m or 3.5m in diameter) and tell me its simple. Not to mention that the shells have exotic payloads like phased plasma, and advanced versions can adjust trajectory after exiting the barrel. Additionally, I believe Minmatar value the reliability of “lesser” technology. Why use bleeding edge technology if just nuking them works just as well?
Technologically inferior does not neccecarily mean less effective. People tend to forget that, i feel.
The Minmatar emphasis on speed tanking and close range brawling employs very primitive means, but it doesnt matter because they developed tactics that maximize the effect, primarily by way of hugely impressive propulsion systems and brute force.
I primarily use Minmatar technology, and i agree with the notion that their tech is not inferior to that of the other empires, not anymore at least.
The Minmatar tend not to over-engineer their vessels, or in other words, not make their systems more complicated then they need to be. this gives them one of their biggest strengths next to speed, adaptability.
“Widely respected as some of the cluster’s most innovative thinkers, the Sebiestor are an ingenious people with a natural fondness for engineering. For the last millennium they have pioneered advances in applied sciences, despite laboring under chronic material shortages.”
More seriously: the different empires each have their strengths and weaknesses - it’s what makes flying a range of ships interesting rather than sticking to the few “flavour of the moment” hulls.
Which is quite happening right now… Eh, personnal story, but some random ■■■■ in one of the Amarr NPC corp told me I was playing the game wrong because I don’t want to invest any SP toward Gallente droneboats or Gila/Rattlesnake ^^
Sadly, drones are mostly preferred today, but that’s outside of the scope of the Lore discussion ^^"
I completely agree. I see here too often a question of “I I’m new at x need advice with it.” and every one replies “you must fly Rattlesnake or Gola” both of which are poor suggestions for a low skill Capsuleer with only a few million ISK. I can only imagine it sounds like “you can do that be wise you are new/poor and can’t afford it - go away”
Back to the thread:
I suspect the favouring of weapon types are often a reflection of the societies. For example, an energy turret using inert focusing crystals avoids putting explosives in the hands of those you control by force (a large proportion of the crew of a large Amarrian ship are slaves undergoing reclamation).
Less of an issue with the Minmatar, so you worry less about some disgruntled soul playing silly buggers in the magazine. Projectile weapons are known mature technology.
Missiles are a good consumable product - tying a ship more closely to its supply line; a reasonable alignment with the close bound relationship the Caldari have with their corporations.
The Gallente are just, and I say this as a loyal Amarrian, a weird bunch of heathens. I long ago stopped trying to understand them.
Gallente pioneered combat drones to counter Caldari fighter and frigate swarms. The Caldari countered by using missiles and rails to engage Gallente fleets at standoff ranges outside their drone control range.
Amarr developed lasers because they only got the warp drive upon contact with the Gallente and Caldari who made it first. The early Empire was spread out and their fleets had to travel at sublight speeds if a cyno could not be lit in system so having weapons that did not rely on ammo would have been preferred.
Minmatar use projectile weapons because for 700 years the descendants of those who were not enslaved continued fighting the Amarr and they needed a weapon system that was rugged, reliable, and easy to both manufacture and repair in the field since they presumably lacked the industrial base to supply more advanced systems.
It’s interesting that Minmatar would develop an entirely new military doctrine from the ground up, though. One would think a rebel nation would be more prone to adopting* and modifying the dominant nation’s doctrine, not only given the lack of a reliable base for industry and development, but also the fact that they were the minds behind some of the developments in that doctrine. They’d be able to engineer the procured ships for their own purposes, and as the Amarr navy at the time lacked the ability and experience to deal with things that can shoot back, they would likely still be quite effective.
There is a reasonable amount of overlap between Caldari and Gallente with regards to hybrid guns, but a complete lack of one between Amarr and Minmatar. It could have been interesting to see “Minmatarized” versions of some Amarr or even Gallente and Caldari ships early on, but that’s certainly a terrible idea at this point. In any case, the Minmatar doctrine reflects quite a bit of style so I am not complaining really.
Actually, the Matari were highly advanced before the Amarr invasion. They had long since codified their own processes and preferences in manufacturing. The fact that their technology, such as their turrets, is accessible and adaptable is a feature, not a bug.
Minmatar tactics and doctrines seem to run along the lines of: just because a few hundred kilos of ammonium nitrate costs a few hundred dollars it doesn’t mean you can’t knock out multi-million dollar AFV’s with it.
People tend to assume tribal means primitive, and that because Minmatar rebelled against the Amarr they had nothing of their own. Of course 900 years of nearly all of your population enslaved will wreck havoc on your industrial prowess, but the Matari were a technologically advanced culture before enslavement, and some populations (esp. Thukker and Krusual iirc) were never completely subdued. Sebiestor are explicitly described as technologically savvy and pioneering.
They are not savages (though they might be seen as such by others, of course).
The point I am trying to make is not “FILTHY TRIBALS DID IT WRONG” but simply that a new doctrine emerged as the result of a rebellion, when the aims of that rebellion could perhaps be achieved just as efficiently by drawing from existing technologies, and with less time and sources invested in R&D.
Now, the lore stance on this is probably “yeah the Sebs from the wreck of this Apocalypse could build an entire 720mm fit Rupture wing that had the alpha strike to make a new one and they were kinda awesome like that” which I am completely fine with, it is what it is after all. I just think that there is a fair bit of cost involved with the know-how of development, procurement and operation of those Ruptures and artillery cannons (even taking into account the existing capabilities) in comparison to just repurposing some decomissioned Mallers and going with that, and it is interesting they didn’t go with that. I am not arguing that this is “what should have been” (lol) but “what could have been”.
AFAIK Minmatar were added to the game later on before it was released, and one of the motivations was probably to represent that kind of hit-and-run, guerilla alternative to the other empires, so the lore should cater to that too of course.
My point is that how I envision the Minmatar current tech to have developed is that it is a continuum of their technology before the Amarr invasion, only adapted to guerrilla conditions and material shortages and such. So it is an adaptation of what existed before The Long Night, not something built from scratch during it.
Obviously during the history it is likely Minmatar have also flown confiscated Amarr technology.