EVE: The Second Exodus

New space when?

Could be the thing that saves EVE.

INB4 “space is already empty hurdydur”

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  1. Make Trigs a player race
  2. Make Trig space a thing (but keep it flu-inducing.)
  3. Make it all Omega only (halfway there already.)
  4. Profit
  5. Patch it
  6. Ignore forum cries as x, y, z faction dominates
  7. Patch it

Could be a plan

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What are they patching? Presented in that order it sounds suspiciously like it might resemble iteration and I feel like you know better, Ramona.

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Nah an Iteron looks like this;


The first patch is because it was the wrong shade of blue, and it destroyed any character with E in their name unintentionally.

The second patch is to remove the suspect-flag intentionally. Until further testing, ofc.


We don’t need more space, we need better occupancy per system. And before carebears think I mean “more isk”… no.

What I mean is that it needs to be FAR more difficult for alliances and coalitions to hold and control systems, especially further away from their core. That way you create gaps and room for upstarts, people who want to do stuff sightly different or whatever other emergent play style that may crop up.

How do you make it difficult for people with all the resources without making difficult for people who are poor?



Everyone says, “Just make it harder for the big guy and make more room for the upstarts!” and it’s a GREAT notion but viable ideas for the actual execution of that goal are few and far between, and typically when someone thinks they have them, it doesn’t take but a few moments for someone to come up with a way to game it to the benefit of the larger entities.

Then the initial idea starts accumulating a lot of increasingly questionable caveats, addendums, and fine print in an effort to carve away the means by which large, organized, resource-rich entities can more easily leverage game mechanics until you’re left with a convoluted blobmonster of a plan that would probably be worse than the status quo.

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Make it take personal effort, actual input from the “normal” players of that group on a continued basis. So no really well organized leadership that when needed does a rain dance that awakens the zombies and then insta spawns that blob of lemmings on a distant target, who then through sheer numbers and enough meme motivation wins.

Actual effort from actual players, not just a few people doing all the hard work and logistics so that the clowns can faceroll to victory. That way you need groups of active and capable pilots, throughout that group and THAT means smaller groups. No insta travel, no easy logistics, no easy intel. Everything requires effort. That means that smaller, well organized groups can do well without necessarily getting blobbed 50 to 1 whenever they peek above the grass. That makes the power projection a lot more difficult, which opens gaps for others to get in to.

If you can get away with having zero standards in regards to player activity and quality you can get massive lemming groups. If you (have to) up the average player quality in your group, you get a smaller group.

Can you be specific or provide an example of a similar process?

I fear that


Sounds more like High Null than High Sec.

I cant quite picture how thirty people in a family corp will do better out of it than 30 people from the Beehive. Maybe I missed something?


If holding space and making it livable takes effort from the normal line player, if insta travel through cyno’s and similar is severely limited then you simply can not be everywhere all the time, and you can’t push your troops for too long.

If you can’t project, say, 30 jumps around you using the Eye of Sauron blob or it’s WAY more difficult then you will have to make choices on where to be and how much effort you can spend.

Without that power projection being SO easy the need for coalitions diminishes resulting them becoming less powerful meaning you get smaller and more fractured entities.

Having been in entities large and small, the “small, well-organized group” is largely a creature of legend and the discombobulated mass of F1 monkeys is similarly mythological.

It’s actually really hard to operate anything on that scale without having fairly good organizational practices and infrastructure, whereas doing so on a small scale is a lot more forgiving. It seems more the case that organizational foul-ups just aren’t as damaging to small entities, and so it seems like they’re more organized.

Actual competent, well-organized small entities are probably slightly rarer than unicorns and you could probably count all the noteworthy ones from Eve’s entire history on one hand.

I think you are under the impression they are operating at a high level as it is. Im pretty confident they have the resources to deal with something as pesky as longer travel distances and motivating the lineworkers.

That is because in the current situation it doesn’t work, if you’re not part of one of the 2-3 factions you’re an outcast and that, in this current situation, means death.

Maybe we should just ban all the players in the top blocs.

I bet that said blob groups will lose a much larger portion of “active” and participating members than smaller ones, percentage wise. There’s a REASON people join the biggest, already winning, group and it’s not because they wanted a challenge.

Its also not because they want to sit on their thumbs all day either though.

I mean, what kind of “work” are we talking about having to do here?

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Dunno, up for discussion. But as long as thete’s very little effort required from the alliance as a whole, and everything can be done by a small key number of very well organized and capable people, you’re going to keep the problems you have now.

As a fleet being forced to jump 30 jumps back and forth for a possible fight gets old fast for low effort players. And if that happens 5 times in a row and only twice did it end in a fight and they lost 1 of those (not enough backup because they were over extended) then the line members will stop joining. 5-10 jumps they might do, 30 not so much.

So after a while that group isn’t controlling 30 jumps around their core systems anymore. That’s a very basic example of how losing power projection opens up space.

I dont really see anyone choosing to do that, but large Alliances have more resources and so are more likely to be able to do it.

Effort to do what though? I mean, are you suggesting limiting spaceholding to a certain number of systems artificially?

That’s simply not so.

I mean, have you seen Tenal lately? ed. derp - Tribute

Contrary to popular belief, the big blocs aren’t typically in the business of crushing smaller alliances out of existence. Smaller alliances are content providers that pose no actual threat, and it’s not like the blocs want their space.

They might be well advised to engage in a bit of diplomacy, but a thousand titans aren’t going to descend and sov-siege any little alliance that sets up in null.