Indeed. Sarum’s behavior in this frankly demands more sanctions, not less.
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And it looks like the old sanctions were somewhat effective.
Imperial Court correspondents indicate that preparations for a visit to Kahah by an inquisitorial tribunal that would have been headed by Royal Heir Arrach Sarum have been suspended in light of the sanctions against the Empire.
Sarum is a bully that retaliates down, not up.
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Petition to lift sanctions that were put in effect for the atrocities in one place so that another be spared?
No doubt there are Minmatar who would gladly sacrifice Kahah to spare Floseswin. To be quite ■■■■■■■ honest with you, if I believed that would be a permanent solution, I’d be sorely tempted.
Somehow I do not think we’d be called honourable and peace-loving for that either, though.
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There’s nothing ‘extralegal’ about economic sanctions in response to atrocities. And since ‘unilateral’ action is action being undertaken by one party without the consent and support of allies, these sanctions clearly aren’t that. They’re multilateral, and entirely legal. Perhaps, if the Empire is so keen to not be seen as a bad actor, they should stop committing atrocities and lying about other nations.
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Whether you think it is a promising way or not and whether you think that it is something that is permissable from your perspective or not, it would be something you could pursue which would certainly not be complete and total surrender and that could lead to the Empress taking action to prevent what you want to stop from happening in the warzone.
It’s something totally feasible, even though I might understand why you’d loathe to do so.
It is not feasible, and it is not something capsuleers can do. Nor would it work. It would merely ensure that Sarum continues to threaten civilian populations whenever they want something, since it will have worked.
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I am more surprised that you think ■■■■■■■ over Kahah to save Floseswin is a fair trade.
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Irrespective of recognition, it is honourable to place the needs of one’s people above need for vengeance.
What I don’t believe is in you is to ever accept is that in all probability every rebellion you have ever incited has done more harm than good, that the fighting chance you so often and cynically talk about giving is prolonging and weaponizing their misery for political gain, that for the negligible number of slaves you absconded with those you left behind paid a heavy price.
If I fight another two centuries of war I will never bring as much harm to your people as you have done, but it seems you are one of very few who both have the insight and command the respect to have any prospect of aiding them now.
If you intend to continue as normal, to insist that the Empire must immediately change to a form you find palatable, any gains would be as ephemeral as you dismiss them to be.
If however you were to consider compromise, to come up with real measures that even the most liberal holders could countenance to improve the lot of the slaves. I would, at the risk of making a foolish oath, use whatever political capital I have amassed to convey my sincere conviction to those in power that many such potential measures would more than strengthen the fragile peace; they would bring innumerable slaves closer to reclamation.
First I never said anything about fair. Second, it’s not like the trade sanctions help anyone in Kahah, or do they?
It is not honorable to abandon those in need while ensuring others will suffer the same fate, however. And that is all capitulation ensures. You speak of measures the most liberal holders could countenance… but those measures would not stop the abuses. They would not prevent Sarum and Khanid from exacting a heavy toll of blood now, and rolling back whatever insignificant concessions you might convince the Empress to enact, later.
‘Strengthen the fragile peace’, you say. Those in power don’t want peace. They only wanted an excuse.
If the economic hardship is enough for the Empire to commit more atrocities in order to stop it, then it stands to reason they might take other, less bloodthirsty actions to stop them, too. But that can only happen if the ‘easy’ route, attacking others and spending only some minor material wealth and the lives of commoners, vassals, and slaves, fails to get the ‘noble’ lords of House Sarum and the Empress what they want.
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Would that be the same atrocity Lord Sarum was waiting for an excuse to commit, or the one he’s leveraging for a concession?
You calibrate your beliefs to denigrate whatever point you happen to be refuting at the time. There’s no reaching any accord with you and even if there was you couldn’t be counted on to remember much less keep it.
I have never demanded that.
You act like the same move can’t be made for multiple reasons at the same time. People are not so simple, nor straightforward, as you seem to want them to be. Sarum wants Reclaiming by the Sword. Catiz wants the concession. There’s a high probability that Sarum also favors the relaxing of sanctions, though it’s doubtful that’s his primary motivation. Multiple factors come together to make the course of action desirable on the part of the Empire. Pretending those factors are at cross-purposes is just foolish. Or dishonest. Which would you prefer to be thought?
There are more than a few Gallente “town halls” in the cluster where intoxication and violence during debates have been known to occur. Nobody threw any shoes that I noticed, though, which put the moot above some of the member state parliamentary sessions I’ve observed.
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Me, me, me, eh? If you’re going to be all about defying the consensus try not to be such a snowflake about it.
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Would anything else halt your operations within our borders? If not, the demand is far louder than had you said it.
Naturally, as I responded to a prior cynical and disingenuous rant. Her Majesty is based even on her worldly achievements an extremely capable individual, what is it in her past that leads you to believe she would risk war without knowing exactly what she wishes to accomplish?
I personally find it reassuring that the highest authority in the Empire has a proven record of being intelligent, pragmatic and ruthless.
Your obvious intellect aside, I don’t hold you in enough esteem to care.
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The very fact that she has a proven record of being intelligent, pragmatic, and ruthless. It’s clear that the Khanid were in the process of an extended power play. By reorganizing the Empire and giving them military command of Aridia, she’s placated them a bit. At the same time, the revocation of the old structure encouraged the other Houses to approach military parity, providing a counterbalance.
That counterbalance, though, brings with it the obvious formation of factions and power blocs. Ardishapur and Sarum are natural allies, as are Khanid and Tash-Murkon. It’s an issue that didn’t exist before the Khanid returned to the privy council, after all. So she took steps to put natural opposition in positions where their interests would align, and natural allies in positions where theirs come into conflict.
Part of that is allowing Sarum their head, letting them return to their bloodthirsty ways. It severs them from Ardishapur, and places them in a position where their most likely support will come from Khanid. By letting them off the leash a little, she can use their bloodlust as a stick in matters of international diplomacy. But in order to make that threat credible, in order to actually get concessions from the other nations, she needs to let them run rampant for a bit. And if their actions do enough damage to the Republic, it weakens the Republic/Federation bloc and strengthens the Empire/State bloc.
So, what leads me to believe that she’d risk war—a war which she can completely blame on House Sarum, and order them to stand down if the calculus moves in unfavorable ways? Pragmatism, intelligence, and ruthlessness. And experience dealing with people who possess all three, and the wherewithal to use them. If she’s even half as competent as any of the autocrats in null, she’s got operatives in groups like U’K ‘helping’ things move in ways she can exploit.
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How dare you mentione the positives of the moot 
Lets rather focus on how uncivilized war veterans behave after spending years on end
in warzones, because that is what really matters. innit…
I find the focus items on this discussion rather pathetic, and distracting - and i cannot imagine this is what Elsebeth had envisioned.
Perhaps those girls would agree with us (after some persuation) that there are more important discussion (and action-) items now we should be talking about.
- zool
Kuru Khai
admiral retired
we come for our people
Listen, boys, maybe you speak for yourself and let me speak for myself?
Personally I think the moot was just fine.
I did not have any specific “envisioning” about focus going on. I wanted a gathering because I wanted to hear not answers to a specific question but also what the questions are. If I had known that beforehand, I could have just posted the damn question, not gone to the trouble of hijacking pretty much the entirety of the Heska to support my crazy idea of I don’t know maybe talking to each other for a change.
If hearing what other people consider important and what issues people want raised is not in your interests, if you want a repetition of the old-times of posting 1 isk bounties for heads of state, sure, I’ll have you ■■■■■■■ know we can actually do that too. Our combat detachment is not called Unitas Nusquam Est by chance.
But not before I at least try to have some actual unity going on here.
I beg you, admiral, like I always have, to bear in mind where the real enemy is. There’s Sarum Reclaiming forces on the orbit of Floseswin IV right now.
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You’re no longer particularly in agreement with your earlier point. You speculate on a number of very plausible motivations, but what lacks any credibility is the notion it was random bloodlust awaiting a casus belli, there have simply been too many for too long before this.
House Sarum have taken pride in their military service for near as long as we have recorded our history, that they wish to wage war upon any who present themselves as an enemy is expected, admirable and in recent years a wish they have known when to restrain.
You and others have scoffed at any notion that partial responsibility for this fiasco lies with those who applied provocative sanctions and even more so any case for lifting them, even in disagreement this dismissal of any merit seems pretty untenable from someone who considers the easing of those sanctions to be the Empress’ primary goal.
Of course you allude to the imperative to cause damage for the credibility of future threats. Conversely, much as I doubt the possibility of such a compromise what action would best serve Imperial credibility if the Republic and Federation were to abandon their antagonistic sanctions?
U’K as rubes for imperial spies though… never occurred to me, but it would explain a good deal of their conduct.