If PvP makes it more difficult to survive, the supply of resources will decrease, but demand will remain. Consequently, more isk will flow to skillful PvE pilots, instead of subsidizing failures. CCP needs to cut the safety net, and let the losers fail, even if it means they quit. Scarcity won’t benefit AFK botbears, but it will benefit everyone else.
So what? The game is being ruined by the “everyone gets a participation trophy” mentality. People think they want to play a safe easy game, but they actually don’t know what they want. It’s boring, and they are bored. People aren’t quitting the game because it’s too challenging, they are quitting because endlessly grinding is not fun. The only reason people play this game is for unscripted PvP, and restricting that is the path to a dead game.
If you think otherwise, just go ahead and play by yourself on the test server. Nobody else is there, because nobody wants to play without PvP. You can’t have a game where everyone wins. At that point, it’s no longer a game.
Yes, and if others are not so smart, then that’s their problem. In any game, someone is going to do well, and someone isn’t. That’s perfectly acceptable.
It is sad how turmoil in EVE has led to a very real gamer refugee crisis for decades now.
I remember back when I still played WoW during WotLK, someone was talking about how they ran away from EVE and entered WoW to “escape the abuse.” Players were saying “oh no” and “aww” in general chat, and some guild leader invited the poor soul in and gave them a bunch of gold and BoE gear.
The systemic abuses perpetrated against innocent civilians in EVE Online are a travesty and an affront to human rights and decency. Just like in the real world, where the exact same things unfortunately happen, there’s no way for these players to deal with this mindless aggression; no way for them to escape or fight back against these injustices whatsoever. It is a real shame what kind of third-world virtual environment EVE Online has become.
Good point, that’s right, so what. you’re right it’s not a ‘problem’ that you’re an outlier, it just doesn’t help to make you an example case of the player base since your approach to the game is so much more successful than other peoples that designing around your experiences only really benefits you. And you account for and explain a population of maybe 1% of the total user base.
I think it’s safe to say that you’re projecting your own personal experiences. While I will agree that it’s absolutely the case that you feel bored with the current mechanics. And I will absolutely agree with the case that the people that you identify with and befriend (surprisingly) share your take on that fact and are bored themselves. I do not believe that the 12,000 or so other players necessarily feel that way or feel as strongly that way as you do. In this respect you’ve cherry picked your supporting evidence and that’s ok.
People define winning differently. for me finding the time to log on and then do a PVE site or two is winning. Thats my day done well. Getting ganked sucks, but if there wasn’t the chance that I could get ganked I wouldn’t play. When I want to play a game of predictable risk I play MTG. Otherwise, to me, and I’m speaking only of my own enjoyment and motivations, flying into a WH and risking dying to who knows what, that’s a fun Saturday. Not dying is the best, but when I do, so be it, I start again. But I have not yet actively sought out any PVP play, I plan to one day, but not yet. EvE is a big dish and I’m enjoying every mouthful of that meal one slow bite a time.
Here’s the problem Aiko, for some reason, perhaps trauma, despite your brilliance, your ability to see outside your own very niche experience is compromised. You are bored, that much is clear, either EvE cannot offer you the challenge that you thirst for or you’re afraid to let go of the security you’ve established for yourself in-game and push toward the next level of dominance. Why is it that you don’t hold control over every system in Hi-Sec. How is it that there are places that are not dominated by you? What would it take for you to reach that level? And more importantly would it serve to satisfy you if you did?
More nonsense. You simply want to design the game around your experiences in a way that really only benefits you, right?
Your argument is that new players don’t have a chance, but they do, precisely because social skills are more valuable than isk. If you want to succeed, you need to make the effort and literally get good, instead of hoping CCP just gives everyone infinite isk and skillpoints so you can play on creative mode.
The best analogy for EvE is the movie Idiocracy. I came to this game and saw a bunch of stagnant empires and whiny AFK crybabies, I knew right then I was gonna do very well, and I’ve just been doing well ever since. I know you guys want some kind of Harrison Bergeron style equality, so that incompetent players can succeed even while AFK, but it’s just never gonna work. AFK players will never pay attention, they are just lazy people in real-life and in-game. So you can either dumb the game down for them, ala Farmville, or you let them face the consequences of their incompetence.
Games must have losers, and giving everyone a prize makes it meaningless.
Then you’ve never actually played EvE Online.
I haven’t said that new players don’t have a chance. In fact I explained that it’s my theory that Hi-sec is what offers failed players a way back into the game, albeit a slow way back in. But without all those delicious newbs would never stick around at all.
I think that most people are aware of their limitations. I don’t think people play games recreationally to be abused. I don’t think that the majority of Eve players want a hand out. I would point to peoples strong resistance to Pay2Win mechanics as evidence of that. I think that there is a vocal minority at both extremes that want the game to be either bumper bowling or cliff diving. I think that it’s hard for players not to feel threatened by either of those destabilising view points. But I also think that EvE mostly stays the same and worrying about the cariest of care bears and the leetest of elites is unjustified worry.
If you were to ask me you would find that I want to design a game that meets as many peoples needs as possible. I believe that keeping things like Abyssal filaments in-game is valuable because it attracts people to the game that otherwise wouldn’t play thereby increasing the total population size. At the same time I think it was absolutely necessary to remove the high end abyssal filaments from being accessible in safe systems. EvE should be scary as ■■■■, but it should also be accessible to as broad a player base as possible, who just wants to eat haulers on the gate all the time when you could on occasion dine on a fattened Abyssal runner. Am I right?
Pandemic is an example of a co-operative game by the way. Not all games require a clear loser and a clear winner. Games can include puzzles and are not ‘complete’ or ‘finished’ until the puzzle is complete. EvE has a bit of everything, the trench coat thing, you know it.
You claim that new players will only stick around if they have a safety net, but is that true? Are new players such babies that they can’t play a game without being coddled? Does PubG have a new player zone? Does Fortnite? Rust? No. Those games throw new players in with everyone else, and they play the game and have fun and get better.
Your notion that new players are little babies who need a lot of help to keep them around is precisely the reason new players leave, because they see a game that is filled with endless grinding, bots, AFK bitterbears, and people who continually complain and demoralize them with bad advice and negative self-defeating rhetoric.
New players do not need any help at all, and in fact they will enjoy the game more and be better off with less restrictions which hold them back.
You can’t have it both ways.
It’s going to be a skewed curve Aiko with new players falling somewhere between either end. And a majority at some point distributed along the curve. The game of games is to find that point where the most people can experience the best possible game. Too far in one direction and you have an amazing game with limited appeal, too far in the other, same thing. You want something that people will play and that’s challenging. No you don’t want to accommodate people that won’t try but at the same time you don’t want to deter people who are slow to start but are unstoppable once they get going. Albert Einstein was a slow starter Aiko. You want to keep the Einsteins. Why? because they will ■■■■ you up when they get going and that’s exactly what players like you need. other players who will challenge them.
I love that you brought up PubG and Fortnight, because they are excellent examples of my point. These games are over fast. Then, you restart, so there’s a constant recycling of hope. These games have a tendency to keep deluded players around longer. Unfortunately EvE is too slow a burn and the deluded players soon realise they don’t stand a chance… unless you can trick them into staying…
Dude, when I started I needed so much help that wasn’t available, in fact the tutorial teaches you things that aren’t even true. It lies to you. personally I kind of enjoyed that, I thought that it was fitting for a dystopian game to offer a broken dystopian tutorial, but it did make life hard.
You can, you might not have the kind of intellect that solves those particular kinds of problems well. You’ve demonstrated that you have other kinds of intelligence for sure, but if you can’t easily see how that’s possible then it’s possible that you don’t have that kind. And that’s ok.
players soon realise they don’t stand a chance…
They do stand a chance, they just need to stop whining and try.
you might not have the kind of intellect that solves those particular kinds of problems
You might not?
Since you admit to never even trying PvP, it seems irrational for you to assume you have any clue about how to balance the game. You should learn to play, before you advocate for changes. Ya kno?
I want to design a game that meets as many peoples needs as possible.
Oh, that’s really easy. Just add a few quick things to the game and you’re set:
- PvP toggle
- cash shop gacha gambling
- anime avatars
- monthly BattlePass system
- ability to queue for PvE site PUGs, with instant summoning/teleportation and player-set gear score requirements (you can see your gear score right in the fitting winddow)
Since you admit to never even trying PvP, it seems irrational for you to assume you have any clue about how to balance the game.
Point out where I offered balancing advice.
Further I said that I have not actively pursued PVP, I didn’t say that I have never experienced it. This is EvE. Nobody gets out alive.
The PVP I did participate in was ■■■■■■■ amazing. I wouldn’t want to give that up for the world. I just understand that to keep a healthy population base you sometimes need to make adjustments. I haven’t made any suggestions for adjustments myself. I have explained why I think the adjustments that have been made, have been made.
You used to be able to spear tackle people in Rugby League but eventually that was stopped because people realised that the whole entire rest of their lives was more important than a trophy. So they made adjustments so we could watch the best players in the world continue to compete and entertain us.
I’m not the enemy that you’re so afraid I might be. I’m just an average person doing the math.
You might not?
I might not, that’s right.
Sounds horrendous :-/
Point out where I offered balancing advice.
You sure do write a lot of words, without really thinking about what you are saying. I’m not even going to waste time copying and pasting your words, you can read what you wrote for yourself hun.
Sure, you’re giving up. I understand,
Io Koval is here now, he takes over for me whenever some random wants to have an endless discussion about a game they don’t really play.
Sounds horrendous :-/
You were the one who said you want “a game that meets as many peoples needs as possible.” I’m just fulfilling your request according to contract specifications.
I’d like my 1.2 billion ISK consulting fee now.
Personal attacks are the refuge of losers. I guess I won. Know your place.