Doesn’t this run into the problems with the entire concept of ‘sin’ that I’ve brought up before, though? Can a culture be ‘corrupted’?
That does not seem to be the message Lord Lok’ri is giving.
And any view where only the ‘rare exceptions’ should be elevated is in defiance of claims that most slaves are ‘not considered to be damned’. It is a condemnation of people on the basis of what they are, a belief that most are unworthy of entrance into the free community of faith unless they are perfect exemplars. The presumption of unworthiness that leads to people pushing themselves too hard, and hating themselves for feeling like they don’t measure up unless they are perfect.
If it creates social constructs that propagate denial of God and Amarr, then yes it absolutely is corrupted. A uncorrupted culture is one that teaches it’s people the values that allow them to pass the test of faith when it is presented to them.
A culture cannot sin, it has no soul, but it can certainly be full of people who do sin and it can create stories and teachings that actively justify rejection of God, as we can see clearly in another thread that is currently active.
A culture being different from that of the True Amarr is not the issue either, we have multiple different cultures within Amarr that all teach future generations to pass the test of faith. What makes a culture evil is when it teaches people to reject God.
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Why would it be? They are entitled to be treated as Faithful, and not as criminals, but they are not entitled to be promoted beyond their ability or the needs of the community just for being faithful.
Yes, but the nature of your god is such that no such rebellion is actually possible. The whole concept of ‘free will’ under the Amarr model is a logical fallacy. I mean, there’s a solid case to be made that it’s a fallacy anyway, but even moreso under the Amarr model.
Edit: However, discussing such fundamental problems has a tendency to make extremely irate a small group of people I generally don’t enjoy angering, so if you want to discuss that, talk to me privately.
Those of higher station have less liberty, I would have thought your own mistakes would have crystallised that point for you. The precious freedoms you deem those of status to have, are granted with the understanding that we have the prudence not to abuse them.
There is no shame in honest toil, the reward of spiritual labour is not in what you get for it but what you become by it. You were done a disservice Kernher, for all your remarkable aptitudes you were ill prepared for your manumission. Not because you were unworthy, it was only ever the fallacies you were told that made you so.
Virtue has never been superiority to your fellow men or changing the face of the Empire. True virtue has always lain in the honourable fulfilment of duty and in being superior to your former self.
Except they aren’t. Until freed, they’re not entered into the Book of Records, they have no rights, they are not officially members of the religious community and the state of their souls is in doubt. Why do you think Salvationist belief has gotten as prominent as it has? Slaves have few protections, if any, and the Theology Council has affirmed this when such cases have reached their ears.
Slaves are lesser, by default. Whether you want to consider that spiritually lesser or simply societally lesser, they are lesser, and that lesser status is used an excuse to trample over faithful, dutiful people for the benefit of a class of lay-abouts born with a silver spoon in their mouth who have never worked a day in their lives. That is where the true unfairness comes from, these continued claims that somehow slaves are worth less and Holders are worth more. It is quite the opposite. Holders are the ones promoted beyond their ability or the needs of the community by virtue of their “social surplus” (to use your terminology), by the grace of being born into the right family and the right bloodline.
And all of this leads into faithful, obedient, dutiful slaves being open to massive levels of abuse. That is the biggest problem with the system, no matter what talk you have of criminal slaves versus debt slaves or good conditions versus bad conditions, or how things should be, the facts of how it is and the great abuse and potential abuse imposed by the system make it inherently wrong.
Demanding that people be perfect just to get the chance of being welcomed into the free religious community, to be viewed as slightly better than nothing, to have slightly more privileges and protections, is what causes the grief and hardship you called out in your essay. Especially when no such demands of perfection are made upon the Holders who own them. Well, rather… demands are made, in Scripture even, but in practice the social surplus is cashed in to excuse every crime and failing.
Again, whether generational sin or social debt, the results are the same: People are viewed on the basis of what they are, not who they are. Their personal merits are worth nothing, unless so extremely positive or negative as to blatantly break with the class they were born in. Instead, their class is used just as an excuse to hurt and steal from the weak and gift more to those who already have too much.
BUT YOU DON’T HAVE THE PRUDENCE. No more than any slave, and in most cases, far less.
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Yes, that’s so very well-illustrated by a slave-born Minmatar who was only ever accorded the rank of ‘hanger-on’ being declared a Heretic and anathema, while blood-lusting mass-murderers like Napkins suffer no repercussions, and his noble version, Alar Chakaid gets rewarded. Truly, the ‘less liberty’ enjoyed by the powerful on full display there.
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I suspect she set more stock in her erstwhile rank than you do.
I expect she’s been well-aware of what being restricted to being in the PAUX meant, ever since she was in PAUX.
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Quite.
While there was certainly some pride in having been freed, and having been allowed in PIE in even such a limited capacity as PAux, I always recognized it for what it was: A place for those of us that were lesser.
I just believed I deserved it, at the time, by virtue of what I was.
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Who is it exactly that you believe has incorrectly labelled Kernher a heretic that has not also done the same to Nauplius?
I have yet to see a member of the Theology Council offer a bounty of a peerage to anyone who can deliver to them a Nauplius corpse, that they might wear his biomass as a meatsuit and use it to forever destroy any and all legacy or remembrance of him throughout the cluster. At best, there has been a tepid murmuring that has amounted to ‘maybe eventually we’ll decide something, but for now, you guys deal with him’.
Edit: Besides, don’t you have a job to do, Oh Lord Fabricator whose alliance buys all its ships in Amarr whenever they need to replace losses, because you aren’t fabricating a bloody thing? Or, I suppose, to not do?
To be honest, Chakaid’s little blood fantasy about Kernher’s corpse was sickening and I hope to never see anything similar out of the Theology Council or any other Amarr body or individual ever again.
But yes, there should at least be visible pressure put on CONCORD to cancel any and all clone contracts Nauplius may have. I think that much is fair to say, as Nauplius is a pathetic wretch who goes out of his way to hurt millions and make a mockery of our Faith and Empire. How he was even allowed to become a capsuleer is beyond me.
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I never saw Nauplius enact an attack on those under the command of a member of the Theology Council. Not to mention the many actions taken by the faithful against Nauplius.
Considering the threats also made toward other faithful members of PIE, and our responses, I’m impressed you managed to stop worshipping at your own mirror exactly long enough to see one but not the others.
Your understanding of Imperial supply chains is almost as solid as your modesty.
This is pointless ad hominem that negates any point you might be trying to make, and is completely ignorant of how PIE operates.
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I promise, Sami, there was a point. As for ‘ignorance’… mmm… not so sure about that. It’s amazing what some Lord Consorts ■■■■■ about when they’ve been drinking too much, isn’t it? That said… I’ll not derail this thread with my scorn for the Lord Fabricator any further… there’s a place for that…
I repeat. Again, you are incredibly ignorant on these matters.
Yep. Well aware. Not the thing to which I’m referring, though. 
Maybe go use some of that amazing Amarr indexing and historical recording.