Faction war alpha bots


(ivana heaps) #1

Minmatar Faction War Destroyed by Alpha Bots!!!

The Minmatar Milita captured the Warzone,people did this expending time and effort to achieve this.
Now Caldari Alpha Marco Bots sometimes numbering 30 or more are Oplexing many systems
resulting in the turn over of the warzone with only small effort from players.
As many as 50 kills of these Atrons and Punishers always Alphas in one day at huge effort
by players in order to diminish the HARM caused by this distracts from the fun of FW!!

This is an obvious exploit and needs to be fixed,CCP seems unconcerned,I have played this game from 2007 and much of that time in FW.
I am seriously considering biomassing my Characters,why waste my time fighting scripts.
If I wished to do this I would be Ratting or running missions,perhaps playing another game
versus the AI.

Stop this please CCP,
Signed Irate Gamer!!


Bots ruining game - and CCP appears to do nothing
(Lady Ayeipsia) #2

How do you know They are bots?


(DrButterfly PHD) #3

I don’t know the specifics in this case but there are some tell tale signs. Running a system for 10 or more hours straight is one. There are some weird behaviours that cam give it away too. Don’t want to share details here as that could help bot creators.


(Durhur Atruin) #4

Speaking as a programmer, I can guarantee you that they already know this, and far better than you. Talking about it in the forums will make no difference.


(Keno Skir) #5

No he’s right. Discussion of how to tell a bot apart from a player is not always best for public discussion. They do not know all the intricacies of their actions purely because they are programmers. When designing new bot software, any and all info on how the last one was discovered will be learned from and applied, and none of them are perfect yet so it’s always a back and forth arms race.


(The AntiChrist666 Diablo13) #6

Should be a good thing if CCP allowed bots being used in eve online so that even honest players can have a fair game.
Seems like they have some problem regulating this issue, a scary thing could be that bots have been making the meta data for a long time which is why bots are not showing any abnormal behavior because it’s normal, or corruption from insiders which prevent measures or manipulating algorithms on security.
I can see with my own eyes this is going on, you can find daily activity on public bot forums, and when looking at the support section of these bot forums none seems have to been complaining they were banned, but they are getting non stop support on how to properly set up their market bot and fixing adjustments.

If they got issues with current bot systems to control them, with the current new advancements in AI you’ll never going to find them no matter how hard you try if these bot creators are going to apply that to their bots because they are going to mimic the behavior of a human.


(Durhur Atruin) #7

Those that built the bots will know every little thing. The amount of testing/experimenting that goes into building something like that is no small thing. They’ll have seen everything a casual observer will, and far more.

I’ll grant you that it may not be ideal to let other bot builders know of the details of existing bots, but I don’t think it will matter a great deal. Those we need to worry about are the experienced once.


(Keno Skir) #8

If they knew every little thing, why would they build newer versions?

Fact is they don’t.


(Durhur Atruin) #9

They will know every little thing about their current version, obviously. I’m not saying they’re omnipotent.

Programmers generally know the major issues with the software they are building, and aim to fix that in future versions. No software is perfect. If we were to wait for the perfect version of a piece of software before releasing it, we would never release anything.


(LouHodo) #10

Making me want to rejoin FW, just to kill bots… I might win a fight then.


(Markus Jameson) #11

OK.

So doing the FW stuff you were before that you’re upset alpha’s are competing with you for then?

Do you perhaps see a basic flaw in your argument chain here :thinking:

Also this ^

At this point it really just sounds like sour grapes that you’re so crap at the PVE parts of FW you can’t adequately compete against alpha’s :roll_eyes:


(Daliena Talvanen) #12

Yeah, you Minnies aren’t the only ones who have to deal with bots. It’s not rosy on the Amarr side either chasing the million Federal Defense Union/Tribal Liberation Front unfit/warp stabs only frigates that are unresponsive beyond millisecond warp speed as soon as you land on grid that never quit unless killed and left to float around a gate in a pod.


(Keno Skir) #13

No, they won’t. Like every software developer, they will do their best to cover all bases and spend the rest of the support period coming to terms with all the things they actually didn’t get right.

Many years ago mining bots used to just warp to a belt and mine. It took a while before they warped away when a neutral entered grid, then after a while longer they started warping out when someone enters local, then even later they would only warp out when non-blues entered local. I watched the various iterations over the years, and i am merely pointing out that once software is released and begins mass testing in the public, issues that either were not predictable or just were not predicted all of a sudden become painfully apparent. The software developer then begins the next version (in order to stay competitive he must) and uses all the data he has collected about how his bots were prevented, killed or banned to make the next version even more foolproof.

By your logic, purely because he is a software developer he must know so much about “coding” that he can produce perfect software first time. Any software developer will tell you how far from the truth this is. If you are a developer you know this too.

I think what you mean is that the developer probably knows more than anyone else about his software. But that still means that information pertaining to flaws in his system should be kept as secretive as possible, assuming you are against him and not waiting for his next bot. It’s like devs wanting bug reports in order to improve a game, except in the case of a cheat coder you want to give as few reports as possible instead of as many as possible (reports = info about how to catch his bot).


(Durhur Atruin) #14

What?! That’s not even close to what I said. I specifically said no software is perfect. Ever.

All I’m trying to convey here is that not talking about flaws obvious enough for a casual observer to see is pointless. The developer will already know the obvious flaws. Unless one of you guys is actually operating the bots, and staring at them working for long periods (which the developer is no doubt doing!) you will not surprise the dev with some details they haven’t already spotted.

User provided bug reports are useful in some cases, but in cases where the user is the developer, and you’re essentially just briefly looking over their shoulders when they are using it, you’re not likely to figure things out they haven’t.

And not discussing painfully apparent requirement changes helps how, exactly? By definition, they would be… painfully apparent. Especially to the person most familiar with the software.


(Mathras Betterhalf) #15

Bots appear to be making a comeback across all areas of Eve. Recently I’ve reported in excess of 40 market bots which clearly comprised part of an RMT network. To get CCP to do anything towards those that I reported took literally months of multiple tickets raised by myself as well as hitting the ‘bot option’ . When they finally did something within a couple of weeks there were another 40 market bots back operating as if nothing happened - when I reported these again little to no response for CCP.

We like to think the silence is because CCP are cleverly gathering evidence on those that are botting and that any day now they will swop and clean house - but in reality I am pretty certain its a case they either just don’t care anymore, or don’t have the resources to proactively target them and as such they are not a priority, or they simply profit from them so they leave them be until they have option but to do something.

Just for info, I’ve seen and reported multiple characters who have long histories of sus RMT contracts, some of which total up in excess of a trillon isk… so this isn’t peanuts which is going on. ie 8 bill for a shuttle, 7 bill for a hobgoblin and pages and pages of similar

Like the original poster, been playing this game for 10 years and now seriously thinking of quitting the game and setting up my own botting operation !


(Nana Skalski) #16

People seem to be able to find the bots and run them very easily. Just quick search in google provides you enough informations about the functions and kinds of them. They are even sold and people use them so probably guy knows what he is doing when developing them.


(Markus Jameson) #17

OK.

So … not in EVE then?


(The AntiChrist666 Diablo13) #18


(Gian Bal) #19

Me and my guys regularly log in and plex for like 12+ hours in a day.


(Daemun Khanid) #20

Seriously? The minnies are complaining of bots now? Welcome to our world. What goes around comes around I guess.

Every time we complained the answer was “fit a navy maulus and kill them.” As if that doesnt result in a waste of time and resources that we should be spending pushing and fighting. Now they fly punishers w 5 stabs so a navy maulus with a faction scram still isnt enough.