Faction Weapons should benefit from all skills

They’re quite expensive. They would have the same dps as tier 2 weapons but with less fitting requirements (which would justify their expense).

As of right now, I don’t know why you’d choose faction weapons (outside of launchers) over tier 2. I’d rather use a fitting rig or a compact module to make the cut.

they count as t1 modules when generating rack heat. Means you can heat them twice as long before cooking your rack

I use(d) cal navy over T2 depending on the missions im running or if im blitzing. T2 fury doesnt have application very good on dessy or smaller, while precision does. If i have to bounce back and forth reloading the 2 different missiles take time, where as i can just go to town with cal navy and not have to reload except when necessary

Given their price, that’s the least they can do (given the fact they do way less damage, I’d argue you’re forced to overheat them).

Also Geo, I said in the OP, “outside of lauchers” because faction launchers are just plain better in PvE.

As for the faction turrets, I can’t see when they’re better in PvE or PvP, I wouldn’t even choose them if they cost the same a tier 2 module (1000x better off downgrading the CPU/Power on a tanking mod).

Personally I’d like to see faction turrets made cost competitive (about twice the price of tier 2 modules) with tier 2 mods, while having the same damage output but easier fitting requirements (justifying the double price).

I think these would allow for some dank PvP setups. I can see it now, Faction Quad Light Zealots beam kiting with a brick tank!

Cost is not a good balancing factor. If they are easier to fit, they become the standard weapon because no one cares about the price. The fitting room for better mods in other slots is much more important than a few more millions in ISK. You’d obsolete the entire T2 market for modules.

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It’s not a few millions. Most faction weapons are currently 100M ISK or more. Getting them down to double the price of their tier 2 competitor (at current Jita sell price) would be good.

Also, competition against the tier 2 market would be good. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. It’s currently under the grip of less than 0.1% of the playerbase (and has been for decades).

We’d see the real market value of tier 2 turrets in a giffy (most likely 1/2 the current Jita sell price, which would ultimately result in faction turrets being 4x the expense of tier 2 after the market settles).

And I assure you people care about the price when they’re making SRP doctrines.

I very much doubt you’d see a full rack of faction turrets in a 250 man fleet. You would however see them in wormhole PvP and Lowsecs, where everyone is trying to maximize the individual potential of their ship in those small engagements.

This is pretty much in line with Faction and Pirate hulls, which run 2x to 3x more than the nearest tier one or tier 2 ship that is closest to them in role.

Right now, I don’t see how any of you justify a faction turret being 20x to 50x more expensive than its tier 2 counterpart, while doing LESS damage. No amount of fitting room or overheat bonuses are worth that (especially since you have to overheat your whole rack to match tier 2 guns).

They only do worse damage if you have level 5 in the turret specialization skill. Level 4 is the same, level 3 is worse. They are used to compensate for skill points. If you want them for cheaper, then farm the LP and tags for them.

Did i say launchers? No. Im talking about missiles and if you read all of my post you would see that im talking about reloading T2 fury to precision vs carrying cal navy. Unless you just dont wanna talk about missiles.

I dont use faction launchers anyway

I can assure you that they do not. Faction guns are mandatory on my alliance because of the easier fitting requirements, while they only marginally lower the DPS as they can use T2 crystals already.
Besides, look at actually useful weapons. IN Mega Beams are cheaper than T2 Mega Beams precisely because they are worth fitting to your ship and because people farm the hell out of the FW LP to get them.

Funny. The less than 10% lower DPS per gun is absolutely worth it if you can fit better plates, better AB, better MWD, stronger neuts or smartbombs and so on.

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Post the lossmails.

I want to see a string of 50 lossmails in the same system same day (one fight) to know its SRP.

Btw, at most you’d be get a tech 2 plate or extender instead of compact plate/extender.

It’s not like fitting faction guns is going to let you go from 800mm plates to 1600mm (same for extenders).

Yes, maybe you squeeze out a smartbomb and an enduring MWD instead of a compact or tech2 AB instead of tech 1, none of which is worth 50M-100M per turret.

Why would I lose 50 Nightmares per day? I am in a competent alliance, not some trash heap dumpster fire.


That’s your cheaper IN Mega Beam over T2 Mega Beam. The weapons that are actually 50x more expensive are worthless weapon systems in the current state of the game. They are that expensive because no one needs them, just like Khanid Launchers or Adaptive Membranes.

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Because you’re lying.

Parsing the first 500 Lossmails on Nightmares they all have Tech 2 Tachyon or Mega Pulse Tier 2.

Sure, I am lying. Just because you can’t find what you want to see. Has it occurred to you that good alliances don’t lose ships left right and center?

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Has it occurred to you that I now scanned over 10,000 loss mails since you mentioned Nightmares. The very few with faction guns died in PvE.

You didn’t even lose a single one in PvP?

Post one lossmail, I dare you.

I can’t even find a Nighmare loss mail for my alliance in 10 pages of BS kills/losses. Only on page 10 there’s one with Mega Pulses which is not even a doctrine in my alliance. Goes to show that you can not lose one in PVP if your leaders know what they are doing. :wink:

As for general kills with IN Mega Beams:



Not a Nightmare but you know: A kill is a kill. The links also clearly show that faction weapons don’t have to be expensive. It’s entirely the player’s fault/motivation to keep them expensive.

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I can believe the mega beams on things like oracles.

But none of that suggests their are SRP fleets using faction weapons (even mega beams).

Could there be a wormhole doctrine that uses officer weapons? I wouldn’t doubt it. But it aint gonna be SRP.

I have to admit, however, that the LP store pricing of weapons (just looking at launcher here) is weird:

A Medium tier weapon is almost as expensive as a Large tier weapon when it comes to LP and ISK cost, and the tags are even heftier.

And Beams are a loss business all over.

Do faction weapons not have much lower requirements?

I thought the advantage of faction weapons is that it is easier to use them, with the drawback that they’re expensive, usually more expensive than T2.

If Faction weapons were changed to require the same skills as T2 weapons I could see why they should benefit from all skills.

Perhaps that what they should do.

But we’re not “slightly more expensive” just at the above chart. 75 million for a Quad Beam.

On a second thought, maybe Faction weapons don’t need a change at all.

I’ve never been a fan of straight upgrades.

The way Faction weapons and faction drones work now is that they’re sidegrades to T2 equipment.
T2: lower price, higher skill requirements.
Faction: higher price, lower skill requirements.

As result people can quickly get an upgrade for their ship (at a cost), while they still have something to train for to bypass the bonus of the faction weapons with better T2 skills and equipment.