I posted a month ago in the only place I knew that FC idled in chat, Highsec Collective discord . It was about my concerns of a repeating trend during the Operation Avalon marathon of guest streamers on FC’s twitch. Guest streamers were habitually requiring raffle contestants to be followers of their own guest channels or they would do the raffles entirely on their own discords. To me, it seemed like an action of an illegal lottery as they were putting up barriers to join the giveaways. Chatters on the Highsec Collective discord claimed it was a prevention measure to stop botting and “multi-boxing” but they agreed that charging money would be a direct violation of RMT.
Well, a certain Fenris Creation Video Creator of the Year decided that the best way to have a contest is for the Top Donor to win - Which would be first, the very definition of an illegal lottery and second, RMT in EVE. Two different contestants spent thousands of dollars (1.) $3350 / 2.) $2500) on prizes. Obviously the top donor won the top donor prize but somehow during a “free” giveaway where the prize was worth 100’s of billions of isk the contestant that spent $2500 USD magically won 100 Large Skill Injectors - such luck. Or conspiracy to commit RMT by @lorumerthgaming.
If any other user RMT’d, their account would be deleted but somehow if you’re a company asset, you’re above the rules.
I’d say this controversy is greater than the reason the CSM was created. We have EVE streamers that are abusing the game itself and FC will not take action out of fear of lost visibility.
If I am to believe some reddit posts action has been taken and a week-long ban has been applied.
Not a lot for RMTing over 5k USD and apparently without showing remorse, when anyone else of us who isn’t a popular streamer would immediately get a permanent ban, but hopefully such things won’t happen again.
We’re all in agreement that FC allows RMT if you generate content? This is a serious issue. And it honestly make me question, what the heck are we doing here if some users are allowed to repeatedly break the ToS/EULA?
Do rules somehow bend if you have social connections with Fenris Creations? Are we fine with that? If you’re a content creator of the community and have been given an award for creator of the year, you should follow the rules to its strictest form - same as everyone else but more. That creator should set the example.
FC issuing a warning as punishment and then under pressure from social communities issuing a measly 7-day ban - That’s a slap in the face to regular users. Anyone else would NOT have an account and there would be no appeal. Game over!
FC has basically encouraged rule breaking. What’s stopping users from booting up a twitch stream and selling their items? As per CCP_Swift reddit post, if it’s not a side hustle it’s somehow NOT rule breaking. I know eve buddies that have trillions of isk - If FC is allowing RMT, what’s stopping trillionaires from having a one-off giveaway-athon? As per Swift, it’s not a side hustle.
Swift also defined the exact definition of RMT (exchanging spaceships for money) but called it a violation of giveaway policy. If that’s not bending the rules, I don’t know what is.
If loru is a continued player of EVE Online, we are truly lost and FC is corrupt. There’s no reason to play. I quit.
P.S. No you can’t have my stuff - I’m thinking of a having a donation-athon giveaway on twitch since apparently it’s officially approved by Fenris Creations.
That miraculous “winning” of the LSIs by the second highest donor really is the icing on the cake. Not only was that part of the giveaway meant to be random, the associated isk value (plus the 2nd place prize) magically brought the in-game value for this donor in line with the $US value of their donation.
What do we have here? First, the “prize based on donation” model is clearly RMT as Swift acknowledged. Such “contests” are also illegal in most jurisdictions. One cannot rule out that the LSI winner was a genuine raffle since 0.1% probability events happen, but equally one can argue this was 99.9% rigged. Which makes one wonder how random previous giveaways have been.
Loru having trampled all over ToS/EULA, Fenris enters the frame and invents a rule on the fly that a lack of intent to commit RMT (what?) means that this behavior does not warrant a permaban, just a 7-day slap on the wrist.
Thus Fenris has cunningly engineered this situation such that they come off looking worse than Loru. Exceptional work.
Why is Loru not permabanned? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX5BF5g7Z4k&t=1168s If we detect somebody who is selling, whether its plex or isk or SHIPS, they will receive a permanent ban on their first offense.
I suspect because he didn’t try to hide it or was caught after investigations of suspicious acitivty, but did it totally in the public and probably claimed that he wasn’t fully aware that this would violate the EULA/ToS. So the stuff was stripped, he was warned and got a temp ban. And will probably be watched in the future.
That leads me to the idea that what the CCP team did has achieved the goal: He will not do it again and others know that if they do it, action will be taken against them plus all the items will be confiscated anyway. Which probably is enough for a streamer not to do it in the future.
Imho thats a totally different issue than someone trading ISK/Items for real money in secret, trying to hide it by using multiple chars, corps and methods of transfer, only to be caught by suspicion, a report or coincidence.
Well, CCP/FC can never take away RL money. As CCP Swift said: Intentions matter. It wasn’t set up as hidden long-term money laundring program, so he got a warning shot first. Had he done that for months on a private channel, I bet he’d gotten a perma ban.
Well they could easily put his EVE wallet in the negative in the same amount that either the items cost in isk or if known the equivalent of the RMT money (if the sum is known) in isk once converted from PLEX.
So he would have to buy PLEX from FC to zero out his wallet again if he wanted to continue to be an EVE player, thereby handing the gained RMT money directly to FC.
That is also something that FC did before in such cases if i remember correctly.
That’s the problem we’re having. Fenris is trying to sway the issue at hand - Claiming that intent is the root problem here when RMT is the root cause.
If grandma lost her leg in the war and I tried to setup a pay-to-play donation contest that had EVE assets as the award, That would be RMT. That’s the issue. Not the intent of the contest but that a user traded digital assets for real money. It’s plain as day RMT. The company, Fenris Creations, can sell digital assets for money but not the user. Everyone knows this. Claiming to not know this is insanity.
As an average user, FC wouldn’t care if I was going to use the money to buy grandma a bicycle wheel for a prosthetic leg and wheel her around. FC would ban the account and there would be NO appeal - Intentions be damned. FC wouldn’t care.
You can’t just go around murdering people in real life, get caught, and then claim you didn’t know that it was wrong. You’d get thrown in jail for a long time and they’d throw away the key. There’s no “I didn’t know it was wrong” so it wasn’t intentional - They’d fry your arse.
But this drama is even worse - Loru is boasting that he’s never done anything wrong, ever. No accountability. Blatantly calling this a witch-hunt. And FC is patting him on his back telling him, “We know this and we love you.”
Rules broken - No meaningful actions taken.
That’s the major malfunction we’re having with this drama. FC will NOT ban a streamer that’s bringing in visibility to their game. While average users would never be seen or heard from again.
Well, it feels a bit like “we want mor blood!!!”, even for me as a bystander. I have no idea about that streamer, tbh I dont even follow EVE streams, as thy usually are boring as hell. Sry Fenris, but the only thing worth watching live is the AT (bring back Proving grounds… they at least generated thousands of views on a regular basis for your game…).
Still it feels like a crowd screaming “he wasn’t punished enough!!!”. I mean, the stuff ended, he won’t do it again, the illegally traded items were removed. Yes FC could also remove some ISKies from his wallet… they decided not to. What is the benefit for anyone permabanning him? I don’t see it. Anyone trying to RMT in secrecy and then pointing at this case will not be taken seriously, because as said, this wasn’t some under-the-radar illegal RMT network. Not-banning-him will in no way “promote RMT” or “legalize RMT” or anything.
And other people really should care less “what a streamer claims”. He is a totally unimportant nobody, I don’t even know him and I can play perfectly.
I just want rules to be enforced equally. RMT selling is a strictly permaban offense - It’s what is stated in the EULA. The guidelines for this whole situation. Picking and choosing to uphold those rules shows favoritism and a 2-tiered enforcement policy based on how the company can make money off you.
So, it’s about feelings? You feel the injustice? You had hoped that the “Gods” of this universe would act fair, honest and just? Sticking to rules they can make, ignore, bend, break or alter any time they want? You think the company is more after the money than after a clean soul? Surprise…
Just ignore it. If you enjoy EVE, play it. If not, don’t. Do not allow any negative feelings, just because someone else did something you think is wrong. Dipping into negativity over some issue that doesn’t even affect you is like bathing in poison and hoping someone else gets sick. It doesn’t work. Who the ■■■■ is “Loru”? I don’t even know him, and you could decide to not care for him (or any other “streamer”) either.
If a player is found to be selling ISK on the side, their accounts will be permanently banned without a chance for appeal. Depending on the severity of the offense we might consider completely blocking access to our system and deny further creation of new accounts. The permanent ban is not up for discussion.
No, I am stating my opinion like you do. You seem tho think it is worth it to spend your time with anger about some moderation descision that won’t be reverted anyway. I think it’s just not worth it, instead we can just go play the game if we still like it. Or not, if we think the act of “not following the rules” or “showing they love the money more than their integrity” or something like that has cracked your relationship with them to a degree that you can’t bear the idea to keep playing their game. Well, then don’t.
I simply don’t see the reason to point at “the rules”. Yeah, the rules say that. Now what? Companies love money, water is wet. Why care? Will they try to rip off the last few cents from the customers in any way shape or form they think would work? Probably yes. They are not the Salvation Army, they want to make money. Hard cold cash. I’ll go play the game anyway, because I can trade lifetime for fun here. Works for you too?
