Feedback for Devs

I started an Alpha account, and was completing the tutorial missions. I did the military mission 4th. 10 steps, first 9 were fine. I can’t tell you about the 10th because the mission objective is in a system that apparently has an invasion, so I died in 1 hit as I entered the system. Couldn’t even hit the “warp to destination” button before I was dead. If I had died to normal fight, or to the mission objective… no problem, learn and adapt. But I was never given the chance…

Allowing impossible barriers to happen during a beginner tutorial is a the single worst game design I can think of in terms of getting people to subscribe. I mailed my 11 million ISK to a lucky player in chat, and I hope he enjoys it :slight_smile:, and I’ll just be another possible sub lost. Probably not significant, but I thought I’d give feedback on, at least in small part, why you might be losing possible new subs.

You were Alpha. No money lost.
You’ve tried, that’s what Alpha accounts are for. You failed.
Of course it is bad luck to be sent in an invaded system, but quitting at the first problems proves you would have had a hard time in New Eden anyway.


In this case, I disagree - established players can be expected to adapt and have the gameplay knowledge to do so; hitting new players with overpowered NPCs who pod kill them in tutorial systems? Not the way to introduce players to the game and encourage retention. There is a difference between reasonable challenge for new players, and screwing them with their pants on.

I don’t think you understand. Everything that happened I would consider a great part of the game, AFTER the beginner tutorials where they are teaching you how to do things. The point is having something like that completely stop a tutorial is just not good design. This was not a tough boss or random PvP, and it was not me failing. If I went to that final boss of the mission, and died, that would be a whole different story. I also didn’t mention being worried about losing stuff.

My entire post was about game design regarding beginner tutorials, it had nothing to do with the rest of the game. It wasn’t bad luck on my part, it was poor design. Imagine if they allowed people to farm the first station a new player starts at, and new players were never allowed to leave the station because they kept getting killed. This is on par with that, but it’s not players that are ruining the beginner tutorials, it’s the Devs…

I’m not salty, I just wanted to provide feedback. If 100 people never sub because of stuff like this, and none of them give feedback to the Devs, then how can the Devs address it. Maybe it’s by design, maybe not, can’t hurt to inform them either way.

Okay, sending new players into invasion systems is BS, because it’s going to feel like a cheap death to them. People have been talking about this for a while, and CCP still hasn’t fixed it.

Now, to OP. This is a PvP centric game with a harsh death mechanic. Losses will happen. What’s important, however, is how you deal with it. You can keep your head up, learn from your losses, and grow as a player, or you can cry and quit. I know this death may feel cheap, but the truth of the matter is that (A) it’s better that you learn this lesson in a cheap ship and (B) you did disregard the warning message about jumping into an invaded system, and still did so anyway. You have multiple ways to learn about the game’s mechanics and what are viable strategies: (1) You can watch videos and read articles to learn, (2) you can join a player group, take advantage of their collective knowledge, and learn by osmosis, or (3) you can learn by doing -just don’t get mad if you end up paying the tritanium price for that knowledge.

Everyone losses ships in this game. Even the best players in the game still die. What matters is how you respond to it. Will you whine and quit, will you keep making the same mistakes over and over, or will you learn from your mistakes and grow as a player?

P.S. the golden rule of Eve is don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose.


Why even have a tutorial if you’re going to make it where players can’t do it, CCP? I mean, come on.

That being said, one doesn’t have to do a tutorial. Tutorial didn’t exist when I started playing EvE, and it was…fine…

Don’t quit, but fly cheap ships for awhile…

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The pool of systems that can be invaded and the pool of systems the career agents can send you to should not overlap - QA dropped the ball on this. I’d petition for reimbursement and have the GM’s reset the mission. Be interesting to learn their response.

Can you post the loss?

Death to trig are recorded on Zkill but yours is not. So now I am curious to what you actually died to.

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Post your loss mail

So we can see what happened and where it happened.

I have no clue how to link an in-game report, but this is what killed me:

Hospodar Ghosting Damavik

It was the only party involved,.

I know it was the invasion, because I linked it in the rookie channel and they told me.

Thank you for your understanding, I really hope they fix it so other possible players aren’t pushed away. I just can’t justify spending money on a game where Devs let that fly. I love PvP, so I imagine that part might have been fun. I’m not interested in any reimbursement or even a Dev reply, I just want them to know, so maybe they’ll fix it for the next player.

Wait, it this it?

2020.10.01 19:08:04

Victim: Slipt Laserbait
Corp: School of Applied Knowledge
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Capsule
System: Senda
Security: 0.9
Damage Taken: 432

Involved parties:

Name: Hospodar Ghosting Damavik / The Convocation of Triglav (laid the final blow)
Damage Done: 432

Destroyed items:

Limited Ocular Filter (Implant)

Shipwreck Jones

I was not worried about losing anything. It is just the fact that they made a design where a new player in a tutorial mission line can’t actually do it. Period. If I died to the last “boss” on the mission, I wouldn’t be here posting, I’d be in game learning how to kill it. I was perfectly aware of the PvP nature of the game, and the possible losses. This was not that. This, imho, is a major game design flaw, so I chose to not spend my money here, because that makes me not trust the Devs. But I also see the benefit in the Devs hearing this, and hopefully making changes so their game can be better.


Maybe pass word along that this is actually an oversight.
That NPE is affected by invasions

Only if the player losing his ship has granted ZKill api rights.

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This is not “designed” in a way you may suppose. Those invaded systems appear randomly (on second thought: Do they?), and I’m pretty sure they avoid starter systems and career agent systems. I’m not sure how randomly the destinations of the agent’s missions are chosen, but as it is a 0.9 System it is classified as secure (the coding is about 15 years old, I reckon), and obviously the random choice of invaded systems and the choice of mission destos have a slight intersection.
This mistake does not happen by purpose. But consequence may be there will be 12 quite large areas which can’t be invaded, I’m not sure if that’s wanted. If you want to spice up Highsec, this kind of problems appear.
And your opening post: Your first paragraph is very helpful and a valuable hint. The second paragraph, though, shows you would have problems playing EVE anyway. We already know this kind of “change the rules and there would be many new players” posts. If you’ve had asked how to solve that problem instead, we would have reacted completely different.

It’s not in the New Player Experience, but a desto of a career angent’s mission, or is that considered to be part of the NPE?
BTW, there’s also invaded systems on the SOE Epic Arc route. For new players, EVE is getting much harder, probably the complete new player introduction has to be changed!

Unfortunately with this attitude you wouldn’t have survived in EvE for long anyway. EvE is inherently unfair like real life. Fair only in regards of balance and chances. Such kind of situation will occur frequently, devs add or change something, and if you are not on your toes or miss the memo you lose when unprepared.

Loss is part of this game, most things are best learned by trial and error.

Ok, the tutorial in Eve is pretty pants anyway. It really just gives you the basic ship controls and I brief into to the game. Is a bit like passing your driving test, then going out and buying your first car. But I don’t remember doing my tutorial in any of the invasion systems. (I could be wrong)

Are you sure you hadn’t actually finished the tutorial and moved on to the early level missions already? If not, then yea, putting tutorial objectives in unsafe systems is a pretty dumb move

The Devs have acknowledged that TQ and Serenity were each given buckets of invasion-eligible systems that were randomly drawn from by the invasion spawn mechanics. As the initial list of eligible systems was manually created, failing to exclude the systems covered by the Rookie Griefing policy (starter systems, career agent systems and their mission destinations, and the SOE agent/mission systems) was a serious oversight on CCP’s part and another indication of their slapdash approach to game development.

To those of you saying I would not have liked the game because of it’s inherent difficult nature, I can only tell you that is not true. A completely open world with PvP and an actual risk to your actions was why I was interested in the first place. I’ve made it clear in my posts that the actual game-play was not the issue. Even an invasion event sounds like great game-play opportunity when done right. My only issue was with a design that makes the beginner tutorial unplayable.

Edit: If this were an invasion in the tutorial area that a new player could actually participate in, like appropriate level enemies with an explanation of invasions and how to handle or avoid them, it could have even been a great addition to the tutorial mission! But again, that is not how it was designed. ** Actually, the more I think about it, this invasion and having a small part a new player could experience would have been a great way to introduce it and make the player feel like part of the game. If I had jumped into the system, been warned about the invasion, and had to try and fight my way though, that would have been some damn good immersion. Even if I died, it would have been as a player contributing to fending off an invasion! So now I think, not only was this a poor game design, but an amazing missed opportunity!