Final days for the ABC Moon pulls

Entering the next phase?

As we head into the last possible extractions of the old Moon pulls that contained the mineral ores we now start into the next phase of mineral starvation. What is to be expected from market prices, manufacturing activity and general mining activities.

What are the general feeling about these changes?

I know within my group, who are a largely industrial entity living in null we have had a morale hit from the changes. I also know that this isn’t going to be the case everywhere so I would like to try and gauge peoples feelings from said changes.

Have you understood the need for the changes? are you happy with the information provided for the changes? do you even care? I would like to know all responses how ever trivial or specific they are.

What are the current effects?

Have you or your community had any positive or adverse effects from the changes? I said above my group has lost a few players who, contrary to popular belief enjoyed mining rocks. We have seen a decreased asteroid mining trend and an increased Ice mining one. What effects of the redistribution have you seen in your groups?

Do you have any apprehensions for the future?

Are you afraid that the next thing to change will be the next thing you have moved onto? I have had people talk to me about the fear they have that next will be Ice or even Gas leaving them without the pleasure they once got from the game. I hope that this will bring them into new areas, test the waters and go to new horizons, but what if it doesn’t? Would it help them if they were better informed with some data about why the changes are happening?

I have had pilots approach me suggesting that they are being targeted, and because they do not want to do consensual pvp they are being punished. The lack of communication is the key to resolving some of this, for that I am sure.

Have your say

I am trying to gather some information about this sector of the game. In general the player who partake in this type of activity as their main source of enjoyment from Eve online I have found to be usually less vocal, less connected to the wider game or generally shunned into a corner for enjoying such activities that they do not want to speak out about mining, This may seem like a far fetched concept, but I know it exists as I often didn’t want to chime in about mining changes, Rorqual changes etc as I was often belittled for my choice of activity.

There is no right and wrong answers here this is your game as much as the next pilot, if your game is being effected either positively or negativity by these changes let me know, or if you are excited or worried for the next change please lets get talking about it. What’s the worse that can happen?

PJhustle Signature

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I was happy enough with the changes and the overal phases. However I am disappointed in the lack of information from CCP, especially how they propose to vary resources dynamically and to what degree. If you are an industrialist then a lot of your goals are medium to long term and at the moment it is impossible to make any plans and it has been like this for quite a while. Time for some detail I think.

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Thank you for your reply and it is a solid response too, I agree we should have some information to allow us to continue on the path to our plans, which as you said are generally medium to long term.

Thank you for your time and response.

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From my understanding, which of course may be wrong, they are bringing in these changes to reduce minerals because of masses of stockpiles that have built up over the years, I assume that this is mainly aimed towards the massive null alliances, but regardless of how it is split they are trying to reduce that stockpile. What they have planned with the dynamic changes I am not sure because they are always very vague with their plans

I this current example with moon mining etc I personally mine sometimes and I like some aspects of industry and wanted to make things like ships that needed minerals, I know I could do another activity that earned me more ISK and then buy the minerals but I don’t care for min/maxing and so do it occasionally to relax, maybe while I can semi concentrate on something else. It doesn’t bother me that I need to mine a regular belt for Veldspar but then my needs are small, and I do other things in game.

People have every right to fear for what they currently enjoy most though as CCP have shat on other things in the past and I don’t suppose they really care. When something happens you forums flair up with a load of Rhetorc from people that feel hard done by, they say they are going to unsub their 40 accounts and perhaps they do, that crap is for our benefit as CCP can see whether that happens or not. Some other write out a balanced and worthy thought outline indicating why it is a bad idea nothing gets changed though, CCP still make the change regardless). I mean look at the stupidity around the red dot.

One of the biggest gripes ive read about since these particular changes is it is pointless having a Rorqual now as the belts are so small, so if CCP didn’t care about them then they are going to care even less about someone in a exploration frigate hitting gas site, people come, people go, ultimately they want eve to make money so they can all stay in jobs, end of.

For me I hope the changes that come along are interesting and complete, because again CCP have a habit of starting something and not finishing it (tiercide for example) and so I look forward to that part, But ill also overcome and adapt to any changes they make. Once it gets to a point where I think I cannot enjoy the game, then ill simply unsub and walk away.

As for being belittled by others, yeah it happens, Forum is full of dickheads who hide behind the anonymity of their avatars. I personally do not care less what others on the forums think of me, so I choose to ignore or make fun of those people comments.

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Negative, I was producing Athanors. :sadparrot:

Thank you for strong valid responses to the sections of my post.

RIP, feels bad man

The winds of change are blowing and players are unhappy. We’re going to have to climb out of our nice comfortable ruts and adapt! One thing I can guarantee: there will be continued demand for minerals and moon materials throughout the transition and beyond. The tale thus far is neatly summed up in the economic indices:

image

  • The mineral price index is way up -no surprise since CCP has nerfed mineral supply 3 times since December. None the less, we’re already seeing adaptation with Domain, The Forge and Sinq Laison taking 3 of the 5 top spots for mining in the April MER.
  • The primary producer index (includes raw materials like ore, ice, moon ores, unprocessed PI, etc…) are also up substantially - also no surprise.
  • The real surprise for me is the secondary producer index - these are the processed primary materials and components we use to build ships, modules or structures and they are crashing! The only possible reason I can think for this to happen is people are liquidating stockpiles.
  • The consumer price index is basically flat and has been for years. Eventually the higher prices for raw materials will work their way through the value chain but it hasn’t happened yet.

Balancing the ecosystem and introducing an element of scarcity is a good thing. It had to be done and the sooner the better. Asking CCP to tell you their plans is like asking a central bank to tell you their plans for interest rates over the next year or so. While they have a goal they are trying to achieve (and have shared) the details are data driven.

I believe CCP have acted in time and may be able to pull this off without causing a recession in the game economy because the player population is growing. Wish I could believe the same for the real world economy!

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:red_circle:

It was never necessary as extraction of ores was balanced in the past. CCP made it necessary because they completely wrecked this extraction balance with Rorquals and moons. Saying otherwise and thus putting the blame on the players is ludicrous.

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I am on mobile but enjoyed your response. One question I have though is could it have been a possibility to attack said stockpiles without harming the activity that some players enjoy? As a simple suggestion raising the build cost of all t1 ships by X% and limiting rorquals on a given grid (I know the latter requires more dev time to implement).

I am sure there are alternative ways to achieve the goals without attacking a play style, tough for sure, but possible I would like to think so

Great post and good read, but I have to say, that signature was hilarious.

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Hahah

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As @Zhalyd_Lyehin states, CCP created the problem in the Ascension expansion when they changed the warfare link system to command bursts. This required the mining command ships to be on-grid so they were given the ability to mine so the pilots would have something to do. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions!

Combine a a fleet of Rorquals, each capable of harvesting as much as a fleet of exhumers, with infinite respawning colossal anomalies and the protection of a super capital umbrella and you have a problem. CCP tried nerfing the ship - that didn’t work so they nerfed the resource.

With 5201 accessible systems in K space, there is no shortage of ore in New Eden - the differences are that it is no longer delivered to your doorstep - you need to go find it and nullsec is no longer self-sufficient - some ores need to be imported.

I don’t think the availability of nullsec ores through moon mining in highsec was ever a good idea but, there needed to be some reason to build refineries. CCP has stated that highsec refineries will have value but you’ll need patience - as anyone who has done a renovation project will know - the first phase is demolition and it isn’t fun. Contractor friends of mine call it “divorce dust”!

CCP has been clear that the scarcity phase is intended to move the balance from oversupply to undersupply - we’re definitely not there yet. Minerals are more expensive but I have encountered no supply shortages. I expect the redistribution phase to give each region of space some resource that is abundant and others that are scarce - we’ll need to trade. I expect dynamic redistribution will largely be an issue for sovereign nullsec - overexploit a resource and you will deplete it.

I don’t see CCP attacking a playstyle. They are correcting an imbalance that was threatening the game economy. If you want to mine In highsec, CCP seems to be spawning a lot more ore anomalies - the agency is currently showing 30 near me, but highsec refineries likely won’t be fueling the moon drill for a while and even when new resources are available, it will be questionable value if the ores need to be taken to lowsec for reacting. We’ll need to see what CCP has planned.

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I can agree with most portions of your post here I wish I was at hope to better construct my responses m, you all know how tedious writing can be on mobile keyboards.

My question was mainly based upon was there an alternative approach where you could get the same results they are after whilst still allowing those who like to munch rocks in their barges all day long to do so? I expect an increase in the ships may be looming to further strangle the supply line which would be interesting.

This goes onto the Malcanis law again but the little guys got screwed because the big guys abuse. Basically I have member who finally got round to training their rorqual sport they could now support members of the corporation with boosts and also mine themselves, after the year + it took them to get there Rorquals are not as viable because rocks are too small and they need to relocate allot.

If I was to point out 1 single enemy in the path to mineral abundance it would be tough but I know which two I would be fighting over. Infinite Anom spawns and stackable rorquals (allowing multiboxing rorquals to be a thing). Without both of those we would have been in a much better place but we can’t undo that now.

Loosing players to this is a tough one for me as atm every player counts in this game and I would like to explore optional plans that could get same results with less damage to our membership.

The thing that pisses me off the most in all of this is that moons were not the problem. CCP’s decision to turn rorqs into the mining behemoths they are now is at the root of all the issues here. Moon mining was perfect game content. Corporations and alliances were formed, empires created, space claimed, territory fought over, all the things that this game is marketed on came about directly from moon mining.

We see this so often from game developers… they make a change that everyone knows is/will be game breaking - making rorqs into mining machines. Instead of admitting they made a mistake and walking back the change, they completely destroy the rest of the game to accommodate their stupidity and arrogance.

The alliance we had was zombified overnight after the initial announcement with only a handful of folks seeing things through to the bitter end. There are still a few people there foolishly believing CCP will make this right.

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Except there have been many talking about a 3rd quarter phase where ice will be reduced around 65% capacity per icicle in belts as well. CCP Hilmar not happy with too much industry in the game and needs to refocus to a pvp focus.

Although I am not 100% convinced of this thought process. My thoughts are irrelevant as many people have resonated a similar sentiment to me and it makes them feel anxious about the game they have invested in. Many of my members have left on this notion alone despite me trying to argue against it.

Left the corp or left the game?

CCP Hilmar and others have been pretty clear. Industry and markets have no place in this game and it needs to return to a PVP only focus. I am just hoping the talk about removing HS L3 and L4 missions to lowsec isnt the next step because there goes another chunk of the game.

Unfortunately the game

I didn’t bother to look how long you have been in game, but if your old enough, you know as well as I that CCP has been willing to give up a large portion of it’s player base in the past. So far as I’ve seen, their still trying to recover from it.