What of the “citadel spam” problem? Will it be necessary to remove all non-Imperium structures? Players normally complain about the boring slog, but, if “your” ISK is at stake anywhere on the map due to a resource distribution change …
In 2011 that could have worked Brisc. But not anymore, not today. With the old CSM ways of ‘only tell what needs to be done’, today we are reaping the fruits of ill-advisory methods, and we are now all sides of the fence, dangling on the steepest slopes ever known.
Eve has reached the cascading phase, whereby both Devs and CSM14-15 will have the greatest challenge of ever exeperienced. It is high time to break the old habits and adopt new and fresher perspectives. The new powers of the CSM have to go beyond than just being ‘polite and smile’.
On another note, a CSM member being or not being developers is no argument. CSM has to REPRESENT THEIR PEOPLE FIRST and foremost vs concerned of Devs difficulty. You do not represent the Devs but the People! And as a customer of Eve online, it is not my concern if Devs have to peal down 5 years worth of coding to fix an issue. If I’m to pay and play, I expect Devs to do the job required to fix lagging issues and not tinkle with unbroken things. Likewise, when people vote for CSM, they expect those members to REPRESENT them!
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Yup. It took us a month to burn down Tribute, mostly w/subcaps, backed up by just the threat of the supers. It’d take anyone else a year and a half to burn down Delve. If we felt we absolutely had to, we’d have plenty of time to get home for defense while razing one region at a time.
Nope. We’re reaping the fruits of CCP not listening. And the CSM can’t control that, no matter what they bring to the table.
You’ve been sleeping too much Arrendis, that why they did not listen. With such powers alike INN, I’d steer any entity with much ease, that they’d respect The People and their CSM more. Wake up bro, you hve great potential but let things stagnate too long. The media is a very powerful driving force.
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They didn’t listen because people didn’t vote with their feet. We can suggest all the things we like. God knows INN’s done that. Hell, I’ve posted probably a quarter-million words on ‘here’s ways to improve the game, break up stagnation, improve retention’ over… I dunno, the last two years alone. CCP didn’t listen because CCP didn’t feel they needed to listen.
When people started voting with their feet, when they started cancelling account en masse, when they stopped logging in? CCP listened.
And that’s all they’ll listen to. I don’t know if it’s some kind of Icelandic ego thing, I don’t know if it’s just Hilmar waving his boss-peen around and everyone else having to jump. I know ex-CCP Sreegs used to say ‘CCP will never change, because CCP exists purely to give a small group of Icelanders jobs’. And I haven’t seen any indication that that mindset has changed.
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And this might be the best way to do things again. Internet Space Ship is Serious Business.
Yeah, that’s what just happened. To continue to punish them now that way would tell them changing course wasn’t helpful. It’s the wrong message.
And really, right now? EVE can’t afford to lose many more people. The economy’s been dropping ~18% month-over-month for almost a full quarter now. Demand is down. Another few months like July 12-Sept 13, and the economy crashes. And unlike the real world, where everyone has to keep playing… in EVE, we don’t. It’ll just accelerate the failure cascade. EVE is a lot more fragile right now than I think most folks suspect.
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There comes a point in life where the things you’d never hope to happen, does happen. And you have to make a decision - to chop off or not the finger Mr John Wick?
Maybe so, but killing the game doesn’t fix the game. If, at any point, I decide that I’m just done, the one thing I will not do is tell other people they should stop playing.
Eve online is unbreakable. It is such of a complexity advanced, that to most mortals we seem alien. What most do not comprehend now, will seem ground breaking to future generations. Maybe what you will have done is bring a fresh perspective when needed. It’s a legacy worth living for. But you decide.
Below is a copy paste from somewhere else on what I think the CSM is for.
CSM isn’t a workshop or isn’t a business meeting where decisions are being made together. If you ask me, it’s not exactly a focus group either as a focus group implies random sampling of people.
CSM is a group into which people hopefully choose expert representatives reflecting their Eve balance views and interests. In turn, here is a few things CSM achieves.
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Steer CCP from bad ideas. But this gets romanticized and overstressed a lot and while I think it’s important, I don’t think it’s the only job of CSM. And I think most of these ideas are so obviously bad that no matter who gets elected among the top 25 candidates, this task will be done. So this isn’t something for particular CSMs to take credit for.
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Be a slight influence on what Eve problems CCP is prioritizing the very precious devtime.
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Provide a marketplace of ideas for solutions to Eve’s problems, which may or may not be used at some point in the future.
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Represent the interests of Eve population in matters of community consensus. Represent the interests of people who voted them in, in matters of a clash of interest between playstyles.
None of these tasks are in such a nature to yield a “things to do” or “decisions made” list at the end of the week. CCP absorbs what they do from the meetings, and moves forward. It initially might look like they don’t care at all about the meetings. But only in a year or two you realize how much influence the CSMs of the past years had in hindsight. And that explains why CCP keeps paying tens of thousands of dollars each year to bring people in Iceland.
PS: Brisc. You weren’t an expert candidate (at least you didn’t base your campaign on your expertise of a game area). That’s actually why I opposed your candidacy. And that might be why you were seeing CSMs only duty as absorbing problems from the community, and pointing at them in the summit. Yes, CSM helps problem area prioritization but also much else. If problem area prioritization was the only achievement of the previous summit, I’d be very upset with the value of the time I spent.
I hope Pando runs next year. He should be Init’s candidate, and has so many good ideas. As he also says, we need more expert FCs in the body.
Two thirds of the community team has been there less than a year. Cut them a little slack.
It’s not the community team I blame for it. Hilmar’s been all over the place, doing the EP’s job and spewing all sorts of nonsense without communicating any coherent vision. Mannbjorn’s been completely AWOL. Burger’s been stuck holding Hilmar’s beer.
Fish rots from the head, and all, you know?
They really don’t.
Killah. Vily. Progod. Sort. Jin’taan. Judge. Vince Draken. Gorski. On and on and on, there are always FC voices on the CSM. Always. They don’t need more of them.
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Of course the CSM has to represent the players, all the players, not just the ones who elected them. But my point about them not being developers is just that: they’re not developers. If you want to fix the game yourself, get a job at CCP. There are maybe a handful of guys like Suitonia, Stitch Kaneland and Arrendis who could possible tell these guys how to balance properly with in the weeds level detail. That’s not what the CSM is or what CCP needs.
They need to know what the players want, where they should prioritize their resources and what folks like and don’t like about what they’re doing. That’s where the value lies. That’s what I learned from last year - every idea that we presented they had heard before and could argue the benefits and costs of all of them. Nothing was new. So it makes no sense wasting our time and theirs presenting ideas - what needs to happen is the CSM pushing for areas to be addressed. That’s how things get done.
Couldn’t pay me to move to Iceland.
Edit: Nothing specifically against Iceland, but as a Noo Yawka, I am possessed of a god-given certainty that almost everywhere else is almost completely worthless as a venue for human habitation.
But at least it ain’t New Jersey!
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Your list is good other than #3, which is dumb and #4, which is wrong as we’ve gone back and forth over. You represent the electorate, not your own voters. If the entire player base can elect you, you represent the entire player base.
No, I am not an “expert” and the last thing the CSM needs is ten “experts” who think they know the game better than the guys who make it. And the last thing the CSM needs is more FCs - there are plenty in there now. Merk, Killahbee, Vily, among others. What is needed, as always, are people who can listen and communicate, and who are willing to put the time in.
Pando would be great. Maybe we run as a ticket.
Ok, please never run for CSM
I really dislike CCP fanboys, especially those who just don’t have a clue.
Player groups, including the CSM have been telling CCP for many years what they’d like to see and or why what CCP is planning is going to end badly - CCP have ignored everything and everyone.
The game is in its current state because CCP saw dollar signs in large groups having large fights - they weren’t interested in whether what they added to the game was good or bad from a players point of view - Their vision was MONEY and despite warnings and some very good arguments regarding then proposed changes - CCP forged ahead and made a Fuking big mess of things.
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#3, which is dumb
If you owed me a beer for each time a developer asked us to “throw him ideas to fix problem X” you’d owe me lots of beers.
#4, which is wrong as we’ve gone back and forth over.
Yeah and you’re wrong, not me. If I learned anything this CSM term it’s that people’s background and the ways they’ve been playing Eve determines their reactions to potential ideas and changes so much. If all/most CSMs are of the same or similar backgrounds, much nuance and diversity of opinion is lost. People don’t really change their premade opinions about the game so much during the CSM. They come with their favored playstyles and player groups in mind, and that shows during discussions on controversial issues.
“experts” who think they know the game better than the guys who make it.
If you admit #1 is true then you can’t deny some people can anticipate/know some issues better than CCP, which is actually why CCP keeps flying expert players all the way to Iceland.
LOL, you must be new here.