When I last headed a corp, I relied on voluntary contributions for our financial needs, but this approach fell short. I notice many corps opt for activity-based taxes. Given the complexities of J-space, where a simple ratting tax isn’t feasible, do you think there’s room in EVE for corps that implement a flat monthly fee to manage expenses like structure upkeep? Does the choice between a flat fee and a percentage tax attract different player profiles? I’d love to hear the community’s thoughts.
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For my opinion and experience we got a lot newer player they still have to develop so we have a percentage tax on blue loot for the Corp if they should spent a amount x to live in there I think they will not be able to afford it for older players with a lot isk it’s easy
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I like it it’s a fair idea and it has good intentions behind it from OP.
This follows what CCP intended with LP tax to get people who do things like incursions/mission running to actually contribute to the cause and not be a wallflower. 0% tax corps are often volatile and player contributions are not ideal tbh as a former CEO myself (Fuel, gear, ISK,etc)
CCP could implement it, and someone could survey recruiters/CEOs to see how it works.
However, I would like to emphasize CCP has added in corp goals, and we will see them become more prevalent in the future as corp goals is a great way to get people to contribute assets and possibly remain a low tax/ 0 tax corp. I REALLY wish I had that feature back then I would have engaged with my corp so much more when working towards operational goals. Such as building ships to sell, stockpiling fuel, and PVE ops.
Overall, it’s a mixed bag you want taxes in a corp to actually fund stuff. (Probably don’t want to go over 10%) Some people don’t like taxes but people who actually want to grow the organization will be fine with a small tax. (5%?)
Only we can speculate how a flat fee (example, you pay us 30mil a month to be in our corp) vs just a tax. It will provide flexibility to people who don’t like taxes but are open to a fee.
Pardon the disorganization of the post. This was quick thoughts off the top of my head.
Idea is WH/NS space is an area where stupid high ISK can be made. So, by putting in a small amount of time farming the space you collectively own it should be not even a second thought.
It also depends how high your cost are if you just have a Astra with clone bay running that’s something totally different to a refinery for example
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Thank you for the insights! I appreciate the feedback, and I’d like to share a bit more about my experiences and thoughts on the matter.
When I first attempted to run a WH corp geared towards newer players, the potential for income was evident. For example, Gas Cloud Harvesting is a skill that requires a 30M ISK book. Once trained to level 2, even an alpha pilot could hop into a T1 Venture and begin gas harvesting, potentially earning hundreds of millions of ISK. To support this, I used to distribute the skillbooks and a starting Venture for a modest return in gas. However, while well-intentioned, I found that this approach had its challenges. I am not convinced the hand-holding resulted in good recruits. Looking back, I think there’s a balance to strike between supporting new players and ensuring they can be somewhat self-reliant.
Recently, I’ve been mining gneiss in a Retriever, which yields about 25M ISK per full load once compressed. While I recognize that not every player, especially alphas, can fly a mining barge, many players start their EVE journey mining, as I did. I have not run extensive testing in an ore-fit Venture.
To provide a clearer financial picture: the last time I was active, our monthly fuel costs amounted to just over 1B ISK, with three structures offering comprehensive services. For a wormhole corp to be effective, a consistent online presence is necessary—say, a minimum of one or two dozen members to ensure there are always a few active. With this in mind, I’m leaning towards a 100M fee per player (regardless of their number of toons), with scalable services based on membership. This structure would have no activity-related requirements, giving members the flexibility to engage in any activities they prefer, even if it means using the wormhole as a staging point for K-space operations.
Currently, our monthly expenses stand at -400M ISK for our sole structure in a PI hole. Based on the numbers I’ve shared, I believe with a few more active members, we could comfortably cover our costs, assuming the general approach is palatable.
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New players friend is the praxis go pve with them and I know a lot people don’t agree but fill it for your alphas with mining lasers and upgrades and put a porpoise next to it they cn work for that😊
A mining Praxis is on the order of 200M ISK. With rigs and co-processors, I can fit 6x Miner II and 5x Mining Laser Upgrade IIs. That gives me 6x 144m3/min for a total of 864m3/min. Assuming 4x 33000m3 of Gneiss is worth 100M, (132000 m3)/(864 m3/min) = 153 minutes to mine 100M with the Praxis. Therefore, an alpha should be able to make 100M in a few hours mining in a wormhole. This assumes no boosts.
No matter how I run the numbers, 100M seems like a fairly low bar in J-Space even for low skill pilots. Obviously, running PvE and splitting blue loot is also an option. In that case, a more conventional ratting Praxis probably makes sense.
100 mil is a lot for new players as soon as they can fly a bs they can switch to a minathron or minageddon it’s what is possible as alpha and with boost and compression reassemble
I genuinely appreciate your insights on the challenges that newer players may encounter. For context, I ventured into a C5 when my main character was just 26 days old. Even at such an early stage, I was able to amass hundreds of millions through huffing gas and salvaging. Of course, I had the advantage of being on an omega status and was likely multiboxing with two or three accounts, so I understand that my experience might not be typical for everyone.
Right now, I’m in the midst of huffing clouds of gas that are worth over 300M, and I always welcome the chance to share or leave it for fellow corp members. From my vantage point, J-space teems with opportunities to accumulate ISK. While 100M may seem daunting to a newcomer, I believe that once the initial setup phase is overcome, the earning potential far exceeds what an individual or even a small group can handle alone.
One challenge I faced previously when running a corp was dealing with was a great collection of inactive ‘wallflowers’. CEO was dropped on me as a new player after some drama that was over my head, and I believe I might have inherited some less-than-ideal members. While a 100M monthly fee might not deter spies, it at least sets a precedent that intel comes at a cost.
Can you use the upcoming corp projects to automate your spending pipeline? The presentation showed “build 5 ravens”, “scan a wormhole sig in j-12345”, etc as new goal examples
Thank you for highlighting the potential uses of the corp project tool. After examining its features, I’ve noted its capabilities and limitations:
- Mine Materials: Optional types and systems are supported. Units mined are likely tracked.
- Destroy Non-Capsuleers: Optional types can be specified, with damage dealt presumably tracked.
- Deliver: Specific items to a designated location. Units contributed appear to be monitored.
- Damage Capsuleers: You can specify an organization, ship type, and system. Damage dealt seems to be logged.
- Manual: For miscellaneous projects, though tracking is manual.
YouTube Video on corp projects.
I could potentially create a project for receiving 5 Ravens or multiple projects to gather the needed materials for their construction. However, tasks like scanning signatures in wormholes would require manual updates. While this tool offers a visual aid for members to see their contributions, it doesn’t address the challenge of non-contributors.
With continued development, the tool could gain more versatility in the future.
My wh Corp has a few income streams.
Krabbing sites in our home c5 attracts a 20% tax. Just contract the blue loot to Corp at 20% off and you don’t even need to haul it.
Bearholes have a 500m/month tax (literally one Garrison/month). In return for this, if our bearhole gets invaded, the Corp will attempt to save it.
Loot from Corp fleet fights all goes to Corp. Our doctrine ships are all Corp handouts, so this is more than fair.
Occasionally, if there’s a bunch of sites in home, we’ll declare a Corp krab’op with all loot to Corp.
I’ve been experimenting with the corp project tool in EVE, particularly with the objective of building an Astrahus as a corp project. Presently, I find the process rather indirect. To break it down:
- Initiate a delivery project for the Astrahus.
- Set up a project for a core component such as the Structure Construction Blocks.
- Create projects for specific materials needed for that component, e.g., Tritanium and Integrity Response Drones.
This iterative process continues with creating new projects as each material goal is met. It’s quite the task and, while the progress is automatically tracked, it is tedious. Summing up all base components that go into making an Astrahus before creating sub-projects might be less work, but it is also a demanding exercise.
On the bright side, for those looking for a way to generate effective project titles and descriptions, I found a solution using a language model, specifically Chat GPT 4. Given a simple prompt about needing Tritanium, it produced the following results. Note that the context of the conversation was taken into account, so your results will differ.
Prompt: 500000 units of Tritanium are needed to produce the construction parts. Can you suggest a title and project description for this objective?
Title: Tritanium Drive: Building Cryptopia’s Future
Project Description: To rise anew from the ashes of [REDACTED]'s betrayal, we require 500,000 units of Tritanium—the lifeblood of our new beginning. This essential mineral will pave the way for the creation of Structure Construction Parts, a crucial step in the realization of Cryptopia-II. Every shard of Tritanium brings us closer to reclaiming our legacy and constructing a beacon of resilience and hope. Lend your mining prowess to this noble cause and let’s together lay the bedrock for Cryptopia’s future.
Other corps in my alliance charge 10%. Evidently, there are places that charge 30%.
It sounds like a flat rate can sometimes make sense. You mention a Core Garrison. Are your bear holes C5s, or do your members have toons in lower class holes?
Fair.
Reasonable.
As I said, our Corp doctrine ships are all Corp supplied handouts. It saves members a fortune not having to buy a bunch of rather expensively fit doctrine ships.
In return for this, we all make an effort to contribute something regularly to the Corp wallet.
I mentioned a Garrison, as most bearholes are c5s. But the 500m/month rate is the same regardless of you’re in a c6 or c1. I think all our bearholes are c5 or c6.
It’s been a pretty successful method thus far.
We also do a spring clean of our main staging citadel once a year or so. Anything that drops from the hangers of former members is looted for Corp.
We give PLENTY of notice and will endeavour to take care of members forced offline for whatever reason and who can’t get on to move their stuff.
Out of curiosity, which contributes more to the corp coffers: the blue loot tax or the bearhole fee? My assumption leans toward the blue loot tax. Your corporation appears to be in robust financial health.
Such a system undoubtedly flourishes when members actively uphold their commitment to replenishing the corp wallet.
While I might need to verify, I vaguely recall encountering larger asteroids in the higher class wormholes. The gas is clearly better. Regardless, your corp seems to be offering a commendable service to its members!
Yearly spring cleaning is essential to deter potential raiders enticed by an obvious loot piñata.
While crafting a recruitment post for my corporation, influenced by the many perspectives shared in this thread, an interesting observation came to mind. A flat fee can be perceived as an “inactivity tax” or a “wallflower tax”.
When we consider activity-based taxes, it’s the most active players who end up contributing the most to the corp’s coffers, essentially shouldering the financial responsibilities. This means that active members, in a way subsidize the less active or inactive ones who are not immediately contributing as much in terms of activity.
On the other hand, with a flat fee, every member pays the same, irrespective of their activity level. To the extent people stick around, the flat fee offers financial predictability for the corp, and it allows active members to keep more of their ISK without an implicit burden on them to support the whole group.
I have no idea sorry.
Good leadership and a solid recruitment squad go a long way.
The ore and gas sites get much better the deeper down the rabbit warren you go.
With gas, you need All The Types™ to run reactions.
I sell my gas to one of my corp industrial types, she turns it into doctrine t3s which get sold to corp. And subsequently asploded in glorious funsies.
It does. Our leadership is excellent and our members are happy to take a modest hit over selling stuff in Jita to see that it continues.
Good luck building your corp up! Feel free to eve-mail me (just be warned i may not reply for a little while)
(Also, fyi, the corp I’m taking about isn’t the corp this character is in.)
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