When are we going to get a proper mining ledger for fleets? The fleet history is basically worthless, one disconnect, or exploit of jetcans, and the fleet history is lost or ruined.
I would like to see some sort of mining ledger that works with a fleet, and can keep track of a specific fleet identity (like say I lose connection and someone re-invites me, that fleet ledger is still kept up to date while I was offline).
Something I can reference to when I finish at the end of the day and begin paying everyone who joined me. I play with real players, no alts. I want to be able to pay my workers for their work. Teamwork, real people. We need some easy method to work with each other, but all you seem to be doing is giving people tools to work with themselves on multi-accounts or to watch who mines your moon so you can threaten them with suicide ganking till they pay a tax.
Please, consider some mining ledger tabs.
Fleet Ledger, to track fleet mining.
Corp Ledger, to track corp mining, not moon related.
Moon Ledger, rename the current corp moon ledger to moon ledger.
This would go a long way into replacing the inaccurate fleet history system, especially if you make sure that it can’t be exploited with jetcans. (Jettison an ore, then retrieve it again to boost your fleet history amount to pretend you mined more than you did.)
The devs are busy adding player killing mechanics and destroying industry for fun, I think they can do something for the industry for a change instead.
What are you, the dev protector? White knight to protect the devs from industrialists looking for the game to improve for them? Your only reason for not wantig a fleet mining ledger, is that the devs would have to do some work.
Do you have legit reasons that they shouldn’t? Or is your input here just to attack an industrialist who wants something?
We already have a mining ledger. And a corp moon ledger that checks -everyone- who mines in your moon belts.
Why would it be so difficult to add a check that watches for the flag “Is in fleet” and add a new tab that shows a mining ledger for fleet mining? I have basic knowledge of code, I know that they already have the tools to do the work, they just need to add onto it.
People don’t like joining websites and giving away information, making accounts, just to be part of a fleet. Why would the random neutrals who mine with me on rare occasion to my fleets which are open to all, want to join a website just so I can track their progress in mining with me? Hell, I hate joining websites, they always die after a year or two and are rebuilt by someone else. Who knows who is monitoring these sites and all the data that flows through. A nullsec alliance could design a mining assistance tool, proclaim it to be free and super helpful and secure, then watch where all the ISK is being made at so they know when and where to send their suicide ganking fleets to. Why would I trust third parties with my information when CCP could just as easily make the tool themselves even more accurately than someone outside the game can.
If I pay $15 a month to play whether in game ISK or by buying actual game time, which is what I did, yes, I am entitled to having a game I enjoy playing. Not this “■■■■you industrialists, we only care about gankers, pvp, and war” crap.
And when you pay the toll on the highway, you expect to be able to fly a plane on it ?
Because it would become much more difficult than what is already present. It would need to intertwine fleet and personal mining ledger.
Then what YOU want and what OTHER people want may be completely different, and while YOU can tailor your tools to your need, devs can’t afford the luxury.
But maybe I’m wrong and it’s actually easy to do. Still devs should not work on that because it’s literally tools that can be made, and tailored, by players.
And what did you do to prevent that ?
websites die because their devs can only give a finite amount of their time for them, while entitled people complain without making a single effort.
I’m pretty sure someone already made that tool somewhere. And had more time to enhance it to get over the caveats you are not able to understand (because lacking experience) on that topic.
I expect it to be in good working condition so I can drive on it, and for it to be safe to use. Your analogy here is spot on, paying for the toll for a highway means I should be able to use it and feel safe using it. In fact, because we pay taxes on the property we own here, and they raised them, we all demanded that they pave the crappy dirt road that washed out two times a year and they finally did.
Wait, so, the devs shouldn’t work on the game? They should make the players work on the game?
So why did they make the mining ledger? Players can do that.
Why did they make an in game wallet? Players can do that.
The devs can’t afford to add a check to players “Is in fleet”, and then check “fleet id”, and then add their mining income to that fleet ID’s ledger, while checking who owns or stated that fleet, and making all that mining amount appear on that peson’s fleet ledger? They already check everything mining within the moon belt, regardless of what corp that person is in and add it to the corp moon ledger.
And here you’re saying, even if its easy, they shouldn’t do it. Thats funny. It sounds to me like you just hate people who mine. Are you one of those suicide gankers that just wants to cause grief because its fun? Please, stop trolling my topic and let people with real thoughts weigh in.
For people who have made tools, I have been grateful. I’ve also sent them ideas for their tools on occasion, and because they are people who like input unlike you, they liked the input.
And prevent what? Someone’s site dying? Lemme guess, you’re gonna do another “Do it yourself” comment and demand I learn to build websites and do the devs work for them?
Please, stop trolling my topic and go away, let some legitimate people have an opinion here.
You just said we can. Using the API, we can make our own mining ledger. Sure, it won’t monitor the moon resources, but it will monitor your own usage.
Again, they can. The API would allow us to export income and expenses. Why would we need an ingame UI to handle that if you want the players to make the game for CCP?
Aww you’re so cute, little developers pet, protecting them from working on things. Coming to ■■■■on people’s suggestions because you rather CCP not be exposed to new ideas and suggestions. You just want CCP to work on the things you want and not what other people want. Why don’t you let CCP decide, what they want to work on and go be a troll somewhere else.
A fleet ID is constant. It stays so long as the fleet is formed. If I, the fleet leader disconnect and then reconnect, the new fleet boss can re-invite me.
The fleet ID locks to the person who created the fleet, and can be displayed as a dropdown list in the fleet mining ledger for all participants saving the initial fleet creation info like fleet boss, location, etc.
The fleet ledger will then have the ability to display mining for any fleet you’ve been in.
Dropdown list item: Boss Name, System, Hours
Just like you suggest with your API, find the fleet ID by checking the boss, get the fleet information which displays location, and track how long when that fleet ID began to exist and when it ceased to exist.
I know, this kind of thinking is beyond you, intelligent thought is so hard today. Maybe instead of coming to ■■■■on people’s topics, you can think of unique ways to work around problems and make the game better for everyone. Perhaps I’ll close this topic or have it closed, and then re-post it in the CSM section instead since all I’ve got here is a CCP Dev fanboy looking to protect them from any work of any kind.
P.S. I didn’t say you are a dev, I said you’re a dev’s fanboy.
If “troll” means “show you where you are wrong”, sure.
I think you misunderstood it.
The mining ledger is in the API because it is present in the game.
There is NO data available in the API, that is not available in the game. This way you don’t give API user an edge over the access to the game.
Same as above. You have the wallet in the API because you have the wallet in the game. Remove the wallet in game and you lose the wallet in the API.
The suggestion is not an issue. The fact that you affirm devs SHOULD do it, is.
Your little arrogant egocentric self entitled whines are the issue, not the idea (which is totally fine)
I actually think this is a good idea, but I am not sure if it is doable, nor how to make it available so as to please the most people possible.
eg you want an history of your fleet ledgers, but that means you need a fleet history, which is not handled yet.
Should the dev keep the position of the person when mining ? What happens when someone mines outside of the system you are in, or in another belt ? Is it ok to give your position away to your fleet members ?
and more questions like this.
You don’t have an history of your fleets.
But I guess this detail is beyond you, cause intelligent thought is so hard today.
Maybe instead of coming to be a self entitled â– â– â– â– , you can think of unique way to work around problems and make the game better for everyone.
I’m just summarizing what you said so that people who read this topic don’t have to read everything. I’m done with you, you’re a troll here to harass me for wanting something in the game to change. That is all.
Actually, you want the devs to work on bug fixes only. Therefor, you want them to work on something you want, not what other people want. If someone comes to post an idea for an improvement on the game, built in tools that are safe to use, you come in to tell people “do it yourself” if its technically possible because the devs time is better spent on what you want, bug fixes. To a fairly bugless game with the exception that it can’t handle any sort of connection loss of any kind.
Just because you aren’t requesting some kind of tool to help you in game, doesn’t mean you aren’t asking the devs to work on only what you want. Wanting them to only work on bug fixes, is still something you want and you’re telling other people to screw off because their ideas and requests aren’t worth the developer’s time. Only what you want is. That, is what I am getting from you.
i can under stand this idea that if the tool is there why should dev use time on it but then again we have ghost fitting now and dont tell me that havent add a â– â– â– â– â– â– â– lot the game
So, all arguments are crying, alright. You are definitely one of those trolls who goes around to attack people for fun. You can’t handle arguments, incapable of seeing other people’s point of view so you state your own repeatedly and tell them to “go ■■■■themselves” when you don’t agree with them. Bypassing the curse filter by leaving one letter out.
I argued for the idea, I tried to protect my idea, I wanted the devs to see the idea and consider it.
You came in to say the devs shouldn’t do this idea, that they should only do what you want, bug fixes.
“When devs use their time for tools, it takes away bug correction time”
Do you mean the simulator for fittings? Yea, thats a tool, and the devs added it, and it added a lot to the game.
Turns out, it is highly complex and practically can’t be done accurately at all.
The industry mining API only updates every 600 seconds. It also only reports vague information. System ID, Item ID, Day.
If you mine 5,000 Dense Veldspar at 3AM, then join a fleet at 4PM and mine 10,000 Dense Veldspar, it shows as 15,000. Sure, you can check the current status before joining the fleet, and again after leaving the fleet, subtract the during fleet amount from the total amount. But it will be inaccurate. Anything can happen within 10 minutes. You could leave fleet at 9 minute mark and it checks what it was before you left the fleet, making the amount inaccurate by up to a couple million ISK. You could join the fleet and mine for 8 minutes and none of that gets counted because you joined just after an update. Then if people lose connection, it furthers the inaccuracies with wrong timings.
This is something only CCP can do accurately using their own built in tools with the game.
Maybe if there was some sort of fleet history API but I checked the fleets API link you gave and there is no History feature to improve accuracy.
The actual error, assuming you only check the player’s ledger when needed, would be the one incurred from the delay in fleet cache plus the ping. For a 500ms ping, and a 5s cache delay, that means average 3.5s of error (average player will have been in the fleet 3.5s before you receive a correct mining ledger to initiate his mining data) .
When the player leaves the fleet, you take his mining difference in the next ledger and scale it to the time he spent in the fleet.
“Paginated record of all mining done by a character for the past 30 days”
I’ve read this topic and Anderson_Geten strikes me as one of those irrational and toxic people. It’s always easier to attack someone’s idea than it is to come up with an original idea - always much easier to maintain status quo than engage in creative problem solving. So my hat’s off to you OP for using your neurons.
I wasn’t aware that there was a personal mining ledger in the game until I read this topic. But now that I’ve looked at it, a Fleet Mining Ledger would be very easy to implement. All it would have to do is pull personal Mining Ledger data from each fleet member, starting from when they join they fleet and ending when they leave. If they join and leave multiple times it’ll just add all those periods together. It’d be easier to tie this information to the fleet ID itself, so whoever becomes boss has access to the information.
It would be imperfect, and would still depend partially on trust (that any given member was on grid and placing the ore in the hauler and not in some other system getting paid to mine stuff they keep.)