I think what catches them by surprise is this:
I think they expect to be able to fight back and have a real fight, not a slaughter.
Again, that’s what I gather from the ‘orchestra of misery’.
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You need to enter the protection of beginners, 180 days or n skill points, or until the player himself shows aggression, without aggression from other players. For beginners to develop calmly.
Way back when killmails were an actual mail you got in your inbox, I made the same mistake that I think is the basis for the Bye Eve Online rant.
I went mining in lowsec and assumed that because I had nothing to take that nobody would want to kill me. I then assumed after my ship exploded that nobody would want to pod me and take the sec penalty, but I can imagine you know how that turned out.
What Juan Kos assumed, similar to what I assumed, was that an empty ship that would yield no loot would be safe, and should be safe, because there is no monetary incentive to kill it. He overlooks incentives like the alleviation of boredom or that one might not want folks in their area successfully delivering military hardware to people who may be their enemies.
When I died, I was mad. Mad at the person who killed me for sure, but I could have avoided death if I had done differently, and I knew that. I was also killed twice in a DST trying to get to Providence, probably by the bomber’s bar or some other NPSI fleet up. It sucked, and again I was mad, but I screwed up and I knew that. It stings a bit more that I screwed up twice in a row, but better twice than thrice, I guess.
Assuming Juan is a real person who really did quit, the reason for it is that he had an idea of the way he wanted things to be, or a way things ought to have been in his view of the world that differed from the way things actually are. When he became aware of the dissonance, he had a choice either to reject the truth, or learn the truth and change his behavior.
I quit Eve, and I made a quitting post of my own to distribute my stuff. Two of them, actually. One to see if there were any people I hadn’t met that I might give stuff to. I gave trinkets to Xeux, who got a catalyst, Shipwreck Jones got a lore item, and Pix Severus wanted some exotic dancers. Then I made one more post to dump the rest of my stuff on Solstice Projekt and Black Pedro.
I still post on the forum. I’m just kind of used to looking at it and it’s a thing to do when I’m tired of doing more productive things. I didn’t quit because I was super angry so I still float around trying to be somewhat helpful.
I’m an idealist. On the surface I am logical and rational, but in truth I do most of my thinking with my heart and I trust it when it tells me things feel off. I can’t point to a single reason and say ‘this is why I quit’ because there isn’t one reason. Taken one at a time, there’s nothing that would have caused me to quit. It’s a general change in attitude and direction. Hypercores, the aggressive marketing of PLEX. Advertising that misrepresents PLEX as a quick path to success. Jita is a pit of duplicitous treachery, but those are players who roleplay in a vein that aligns with what the fictional world is supposed to be like. I expect more of CCP’s executives.
Since the acquisition by Pearl Abyss I’ve seen a number of CCP personalities I respected go, replaced by people I don’t know. At least one has fallen mysteriously silent. I do not know if they still work at CCP, but I digress. What I’m getting at is that there were people in public view that demonstrated CCP was composed of people of good character with good intentions. They described not only what they were doing, but what they were working towards or what principles guided their decisions.
Nowadays I see a lot of PR, but it’s basically empty or pure damage control. When I compare what is said to what actually happens there’s kind of a mismatch. Does anyone remember “we will never sell skillpoints” or “we will not directly sell player manufactured items”? I look at the NES and I see a weasel in Expert Systems, and I see those packs that come with some skill points and imagine the lawyers arguing that they’re not just selling skillpoints, and you can only buy them once, but I think these things are still contrary to the expectation set when CCP said they would not sell skillpoints.
Does a promise need to stand forever? No, I don’t think so, but there are various ways people can go about breaking a promise that must be broken. There’s the way CCP chose where I am just not supposed to notice or feel the deviation is of sufficient magnitude to care. What I call the ‘right’ way is for them to tell me outright that keeping the promise is infeasible, demonstrate some regret in the tone of delivery, and to inform me of the conditions that make it necessary to break.
I want to surround myself with honest people. People I don’t have to second guess, and for me that includes game developers. I don’t exactly love the direction that Final Fantasy XIV has gone. I think it’s become more and more an over-simplified theme park that doesn’t do much to promote group play. I don’t get the fond memories of surviving in a harsh world like I got from XI. However, the producer doesn’t give me a roundabout mumble when he justifies why he does what he does. I know what to expect, and even if I don’t agree with him, I can live with that because he is honest and forthright.
I don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense to care about a player like me since I don’t think many people care about these sorts of things enough to take action. I care, though. It’s a catch 22. If you keep playing, you still pay and your opinion doesn’t matter because CCP already has your money. If you quit, then you don’t play so your opinion doesn’t matter. I have to pick one or the other, and I think not paying sends the stronger message. It’s the only way I can cast my vote on the matter in a way that affects the people making the decision. If I put up with an unlimited amount of being jerked around without saying enough is enough there’s no reason to stop.
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I can sympathise with what Mike is trying to say here. I think the problem is that the playerbase does not feel that CCP listens to their concerns. That frankly, is true. However, not every opinion will be taken on board, and whilst “he/she who shouts loudest” might work sometimes, often it does not.
It’s probably just an either an indicator of an unhappy player base, or maybe someone wanted a good rant after all.
Other than that, troll threads are a thing too, this isn’t one of them, but I’m speaking in general for this type of EVE forum thread.
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People rant, and want other people to agree with their posts to help with their feelings. That’s it. Usually this goes horribly wrong with EvE, but how do you know upfront? If you would know, you wouldn’t post …
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Common sense?
Being active on the forums for a bit? (If only reading)
Not being a toddler?
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Interesting thread, showing some of the insights of folks as to gaming, however misled they are.
Having been involved in the computer gaming world since its inception, yes I’m old, I can tell you that there are very few people in the big game that care more than how much you are willing to line their pockets with gold. Learn…that’s rl as well, unfortunately.
Period. Fullstop.
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I think you are replying to the wrong post, chum.
Why? What is it about EvE that makes them believe its different from any other game in that respect? Seems counter intuative.
Like I said - “however misled”
People are used to MMOs where death is largely inconsequential, where they have to opt in to be able to PvP and where even if they lose they get a participation trophy in the form of “PvP points”.
EVE is where they actually encounter “real fights” but they don’t realise (yet) that the fight started long before the first shot was fired.
The fight started when they decided to install EVE and had the first opportunity to seek information to learn about the game. It’s really just easier and more comforting to blame others for your own lack of effort.
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???
Well Ive always considered you a top bloke too
Selection bias, you only see posts of people lacking your mentioned qualities. As the number of people playing eve lacking those qualities are not zero, you see those posts occasionally.
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I don’t know, it’s just what I think. It has no consequences whatsoever.
Its kind of an open question.
Why would anyone belueve they can fight back against overwhelming numbers in THE game that everyone knows as pretty ruthless.
You cant in any other game, so what I wonder makes them think they should in EvE.
(My answer is: they dont, they are just lying)
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Okay. So every Quit Thread is made by alts and liars and Mike wasted his time posting this thread.
Personally, I don’t care if they stay or leave. It’s not my money.
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And how many of those will leave too in a couple of weeks/months?
Maybe not with grand exit statements but just not login anymore and certainly not pay for Omega.
I wonder what the stats are on accounts with no login activity over the course of weeks and months? 
It’s not realistic to expect every player to stay. It’s a fool’s errand to run around crying about them, desperately seeking to retain them.
Focus on players that stay. They are the only ones that matter.
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The guys at CCP could just do what they do at reddit and shadowban posts like this, so they don’t get seen and just filter to the bottom.
When I resigned my character to pasture I wrote an email to the GM team because I know complaining here is pretty much futile and a purile attack on the community for sleights committed in the game.
Whether the GMs passed on my message to anyone is a different question and I somewhat doubt it. I still like the idea of EVE but I find engagement harder than before.
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A business can’t survive like that. They have to bring in new and returning customers (i.e. players).
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