After the first 250 responses here it’s safe to say we’re glad we made a proposal thread before committing to any changes. I wanted to let you guys know we are going through all your responses and we are going to continue to do so until early next week when we will circle back and decide whether to go forward with a version of this change or hold off.
Also, I want to comment a little on why this proposal is isolated to just local and remote rep power, rather than including counter mechanics or cap changes or something even larger like changes to wormholes. Initially, we thought changes with larger scope like the ones above would be necessary to improve the situation, but as we started discussing internally and with the CSM it seemed like simple nerfs to remote and local reps would be a solid improvement and we could make those changes very fast, so starting there and building out made sense.
All the input is very helpful and we’ll be back with any updates on the plan as soon as we have them.
There is no reason for you to not do this already. Why would you not do this right now? Why would this change make it more likely for you to skill more characters into FAXes?
I don’t see these changes reducing FAX numbers at all, in fact Alliances would just increase numbers to counter balance. Its already Titans online for those that can mine unhindered. When you bought in skill injectors you made Capital ships far too easy to train for. Something that should take years to train for can now be done in a short time, at a cost. That’s where you broke it…now every man woman and their dog or cat can fly one in a relatively short period of time.
In any medium sized brawl 100 v 100 right now even 6+ bil max pimp Ninazu gets hazed with not that much effort, and armor reps cycle tends o be just enough to catch people. Now you want o Nerf the local tank and Rep cycle time redering the while ship usless. And to max out Fax character is like 20 mil SP. For me this proposition is plain bad killing usage of active fax for subcap armor fleets in k space just to appease wormholers that can’t kill capital ship designed to tank and rep with 20 cruisers. Way to go …
I don’t think the point of the changes is to reduce the number of FAXes.
I really don’t understand the whole “they’re just bring more” argument - every major group is already incentivized to bring as many FAXes as they can field. That’s honestly a “let them eat cake” kind of argument.
Well, if one of the (few) details of the problem Rise listed to begin with is that the counter is ‘bring more people’… ‘bring more people’ as a result of these changes seems pretty damned counterproductive, man.
Because I’m in a not ■■■■ alliance where everyone who has a super has a FAX. Which is enough for the fights we’ve been doing so there is no point buying extra FAX that won’t get dropped and just burn fuel when we move. But if we need more FAX I’ll sacrifice three months skill farming profits to train more FAX and just buy some more RAM to deal with the increased memory use.
There is also a point where it makes more sense to just fly two cheap supers instead of a deadspace/faction fit super and a bunch of a FAX.
because coalition staging is a thing and I like to keep my faxes in seperate places in case I need to jump clone and help in a fight.
But if I just need to buy more faxes and keep two in each place, so be it. This is not going to change my behavior, and if anything make me more difficult to kill. One fax typically protects me from a relatively small, unorganized group until help arrives. Two nerfed faxes are going to make it a lot hard to kill me than if I just had one regular fax.
See what we are getting at
And P.S I can buy four more faxes if needed. It doesn’t matter. In all the instances where people bitch about faxes, mainly while trying to take down rorquals or solo caps, it doesn’t matter. Those people can just double or triple the number of faxes and now we’ve shot ourselves in the foot and made it impossible to kill ■■■■.
That’s the point - I don’t see how it’s going to result in “bring more people” - like I said, everybody already has a massive incentive to bring as many FAXes as they can possibly field. How is this going to change that?
It’s like that line in the Fugitive when the cops are talking about why Kimbal would kill his wife.
“She was rich.”
“But he’s a doctor, he’s already rich.”
“Yeah, but she was more rich.”
Blockquote That’s the point - I don’t see how it’s going to result in “bring more people” - like I said, everybody already has a massive incentive to bring as many FAXes as they can possibly field. How is this going to change that?
Except you are wrong. One fax will handle the majority of roaming whale hunters so there isn’t currently a need to bring two. All you are doing is ENSURING I bring both faxes instead of just the one.
Given CCP’s history of making changes and then just letting them sit, I’d really rather not have them implement anything without it being thoroughly vetted first. I don’t want to be stuck with a net bad change for months on end.
You should care about Wormholes! We have cookies!!
Should subcaps really be a consideration for reps landing from a Capital logistics platform? We literally have a whole class of ships dedicated to sub cap logistics already.
Lets also not forget that when things are blowing up pilots are having fun.
I like the proposed changes, and look forward to furthur info from CCP as this conversation develops. Speaking from a Wormhole perspective, I like where this is going.
I’ve got two FAX pilots, too. And every fleet where we field them, everybody screams that we need more. You have plenty of incentive to already get more. This isn’t going to make that incentive any worse. Besides, it’s not going to make a difference on buffer fits, which is the kind of FAX big groups are using. I’ve got six FAXes on two characters, and only one of them is active tanked - the rest are designed as fodder for the super fleet, and they’re all buffer fit.
And if the changes mean that the roaming group has a better chance to kill one of them because it can’t self-rep as much, that’s a good thing. That’s part of the point. If folks want to take a bigger risk, great.
