stupid just leave them you morons
FAXes weren’t a big problem when they came out; what changed? The fact that they can be cap stable while munching down 3200 cap boosters. Therefore, instead of nerfing the entire class, just put a limit of one Cap Booster module allowed. This can easily be done in the code (already done for Damage Controls and other modules), and do much to break down cap stability and immunity to neut pressure.
If you want more after that, then eliminate EWAR immunity and boost EWAR defense - so they are not stupid easy to jam out like un-Bastioned Marauders, but are also not blanket immune to ECM.
Lmao. You shouldn’t be talking about FAX usage as you have no clue. No one has yet beaten 1:1 FAX character to Super ratio in a real fight, so why spend extra ISK and effort on characters that aren’t currently required? If a higher ratio becomes required then people will train more FAX characters. Groups like PL will just make two FAX characters a requirement.
Join a good alliance.
That is somehow an argument for this change? Active fits are fine outside wormholes (which shouldn’t be a reason to nerf everyone). Even bombers can deal with active fits. If it makes no difference to megablob buffer fax use then why make the ■■■■■■■ change?
Because it’s not all about us, Brisc. Smaller entities need to be able to be competitive, rather than feeling forced into a deal with the devil that results in more supercoalitions. We need small actors out there.
1 Like
That what this change is? when some groups can already drop 300+ fax in a blob. I can see this change doing anything else other than ablosute nerf to FAX for subcap brawls so wormole groups can kill ships with 20 people in fleet vs fax. this whole proposal looks like a joke. Combat reffiting got removed taking out one of the most skillful are intresting gamplay that got repleaced with DSP+Ninazu and now to solve thi debacle we are nerfing fax so it will be usless outside of wh space when it comes to local tank. How about Nerf Capital RR and local reps ONLY IN WH SPACE. just add effects to wh’s. And the issue is not that FAX is op in any way, the issue is skill injectors and that you can skill perfect titan in minutes instead of years. CCP is truning eve more casual every day and because injectors broke the game now we have this ridiculus balance pass that changes nothing other than being massive nerf bat.
Amazing how you can ruin things so quick, but tweaking few values on ships that are in dire need takes years to do.
What are you talking about? There has been no change with cap injectors since FAX were released. In fact FAX were designed to be reliant on cap injectors instead of the old slowcat cap transfer circle jerk. A single cap injector FAX would be completely useless after being dropped. Even more so in big fights where they are going to be hit by neut bursts from supercarriers.
Why create counter mechanics - specific modules or specific ships designed for a niche purpose that may or may not get used, depending on what happens - when you can make similar changes by changing the numbers?
Because counter mechanics, like focused void bombs, actually require planning and skill to use instead of mindless anchor + F1 tactics.
2 Likes
That’s part of the point here. Two small gangs fighting, one drops a FAX and wins - and that’s usually the side who is closer to home. This helps to stop making one or two FAXes in a subcap fight an automatic “I win” button.
They also create smaller groups of folks whose only role is to counter one specific thing and if that thing doesn’t arise, they do nothing. That’s a recipe for boredom. It’s not a better solution, it’s just a different solution that also has the detriment of requiring more programming and potentially causing even more balance problems down the road.
I’m not saying don’t do that. I’m saying that’s not the first route to take. The first route is numbers tweaking. If that doesn’t work, the next step is what you’re suggesting.
And if the changes mean that the roaming group has a better chance to kill one of them because it can’t self-rep as much, that’s a good thing. That’s part of the point. If folks want to take a bigger risk, great. <
Okay so you admit that this change is just going to encourage people to buy more faxes and drop more faxes. Yeah they might be easier to kill, but you are still dealing with two instead of one, which inherently makes whatever is being killed safer. This change does not accomplish its stated goal.
No in reality what happens is that the group closer to home just drops a bunch of supers. Active FAX are a requirement for brawling armour comps as subcap armour reps can’t beat Ferox blobs.
This is absurd. The massive null alliances already pretty much soley use passive tanked fax because active tank can’t keep up with 150 sub caps let alone 10-200 dreads. I could understand maybe a tweak to remote reps but only really pimp fit fax can active tank 5 dreads briefly. This change would very adversely affect small gang cap slug fests in low sec and wouldn’t change a thing in null. Give low sec more love.
The dropping supers is a whole different issue, and it’s likely to happen regardless of whether there’s a FAX on field.
Do you have any examples of where you’ve got a small gang roam that’s taking a FAX out with them?
Except that’s not how it plays out when people are involved. When people are involved, they act like people. And that means that in the face of these changes… they just move more of their fleet into faxes. Small gangs aren’t multiboxing. If they were gonna be doing that, they’d already have move people.
Then this is a vicious circle and the answer to every tweak is going to be “they’re just going to bring more.”
We both know that doesn’t always happen, for a variety of reasons.
Now you are describing FAX characters. I’ve dropped mine once in the last two months with some of the heaviest supercapital usage in the last year. One of the reasons it’s hard to get FAX in less committed groups is because FAX are generally ■■■■■■■ boring. You are also describing dictors, anti-bomber destroyers/T3Cs, and even a lot of the time subcap logi.
No it is a better solution as it raises the skill and planning bar. This stuff is the counter to N+1 tactics.
No. The first step is a comprehensive analysis of the problem by people who actually play the game. Not CCP just listening to the whining of megablob coalition members who are only concerned about manipulating CCP into making the game better for their coalition.
1 Like
Have you looked at the state of the main blocs in the game over the last 10 years? Yeah, it is. Whenever people can manage it, their answer is always ‘let’s get more friends’.
because changing this nuber kills a lot of possible usage of the ship. IDK why you are on CSM or why you are even rplying to this thread while knowing 0 about meta, fits etc.
Counter mechanic would be much better here, adding more depth to the game that is getting more shallow every year. Like Triglavian based weapon that reduces local and rr that ships get with every cycle that is non stacble. forcing fleet to haze the ship to keep the reps up similar way entosis works now, make it being able to fit only on dreds and baam. Dreds are much more useful, super are dying in blobs, you can kill ships in WH and everyone happy.
Depends what you mean by “small gang”. But I’ve used a few active FAX to bolster a 20-30 pilot fleet fighting a blob many times. It was a standard tactic Horde used when they deployed to Curse to fight Fraternity. The Bean Foreign Legion also used it a bunch of times on deployment or just when fighting lowseccers. It is common in lowsec for armour brawl comps like NAPOCs. A few months ago I lost a fight in lowsec vs IED using NAPOCs and FAX vs our T3Cs and FAX.