Former CCP Devs Craft New PC Game

Currently playing “Pillars Of Eternity 1” which is the same genre as Pax Dei, it really is an amazing RPG which I can’t put down. Excellent game built by gamers for gamers.

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Looks like yet another failed cashgrab dead on arrival due to bugs and weird mechanics. So many games with crippling bugs out there.
It seems that today’s devs can’t code worth a :poop:


Most online games are cash-grabs.
That’s why I prefer single-player games.

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The last 10 years must have been tough for you.

No. I don’t see why they would have been.

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I definitely get what you’re saying, I’ve been playing single player games recently and there is definitely a stonger focus on playability in single-player games.

The mrs downloaded a puzzle game recently which was pretty good, but she soon realised the only way advance in the game was to keep paying money.

With online multiplayer games I expect to pay a subscription and have no problem paying a few pounds a month so the developers can keep their server working and provide a few jobs.

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There have certainly been problems with the launch of Early Access. I was not - and am still not - able to enter the game proper, though character creation went smoothly enough.

Most unusually (in my experience), the devs posted a very long report on Discord, detailing exactly what had gone wrong and what they had done to fix the issues; almost a blow-by-blow account.

Call me a sucker if you wish, but I really found that helpful. The issues themselves were not what drew my attention particularly, but the manner in which they were (progressively) resolved gave me some reassurance.

The day after submitting my support request, I received an email addressing my specific problem (as they put it, a ‘return to character screen loop’). Given that they’d already addressed most of the problems, I assume this one is proving to be somewhat intractable.

Now, it’s just a question of waiting for things to settle down.

From what I’ve seen, the complaints are not principally concerned with the game itself; with the gameplay, visuals, etc., but with the buggy launch.

There is a warning (which has to be clicked away) and a persistent ‘Early Access’ capital-letter banner, which no reasonable person could possibly fail to see.

All I’m saying is that, for the moment (since I’m unable to play it), I reserve judgment on the game itself and trust that the major issues are resolved as quickly as possible.

‘Early Access’ presents an opportunity for both the players and developers to test certain elements of a game under stress conditions, and for there to be feedback and adjustments as matters progress. Both sides benefit from the practice, and there is no compulsion on any would-be player to spend a single penny before the game proper launches. A player’s expectation on firing up an ‘Early Access’ game, is what needs to be handled carefully - both by the player and the developer.

Like I said; I’ll wait :slightly_smiling_face:


Playability, replayability, focus on quality vs quantity, no micro translation, no company needing real-life cash subscription to stay afloat, no server maintenance and no toxic troll community.

Online games :woman_shrugging:

I would rather pay for a couple of Supreme Bacon burger meals or Supreme Chicken filets meals with large fries and drink.
At least I would have my order in physical form, would not have to look for it anywhere for two days, would fill my tummy with yummy and would give my body the nutrients it needs.

A subscription would only take money from my account and that’s it. Period, end of story.

I am not an employer. It isn’t my responsibility to provide a few jobs.


Hmmm, our opinions differ slightly. Ultimately it does cost money for electric for the game server and then there needs to be a physical building which is rented or purchased to house the server, there is definitely a continuous cost for running a game server not to mention taxes and employees.

I’d say it is unrealistic to expect an online multiplayer to not have a subscription cost payable as nothing is free. If we get enjoyment as we do from Eve online then the subscription payment would be on par with a cheap hobby.

If we look at Elite Dangerous for example, I would happily pay £2 or £3 pounds per month for access, currently they only require the initial payment and then there is no further cost to play. I believe they make money via Ship and Gun skin sales and have recently introduced a new ship which can only be purchased with real life money. I worry for Elite Dangerous to be honest and I’m unsure how much backer money they have left, they should move over to a very affordable supscription and cover their costs easily.

Elite Dangerous features 400 Billion star systems and I believe they use Amazon web services like most other companies. At the time of the video they had 825k players/backers.

I think what is to be understood is that MMO’s are not like normal games where it’s created and distributed and doesnt require a server connection, the landscape is changing where games consumers seem to want living and breathing digital universes to play around in, unfortunately there is a continuous cost associated with this.

It is okay. A conversation where everybody agrees is so boring it puts me to sleep.

No one forces them to do all that and have all that real estate. They choose to do all that in hopes for higher returns, returns that do not benefit me personally so I don’t see how it’s any of my problems.

I understand where you’re coming from but don’t forget that CCP advertises EVE as a free MMO.
So which is it now? Is it free or not?
It’s advertised as free so I take it it’s free.

I do get enjoyment from the game but no more enjoyment I would get from one of my single-player games and those do not have subscription.
I have a cheap hobby, I write, am an artist and enjoy arts&crafts.
Online gaming isn’t one of my hobbies. I only play games to do something different and in the case of EVE, I have to admit that the game is beautiful.

Virtually all online games exist for the money they provide. But I am not paying for an employer’s ability to pay his employees, I am not a union nor am I a bank.

I don’t play that game but regardless, I am not worried about someone else’s business. Whatever they should do will not affect me.

Not so impressive considering the power of computing today.

Amazon ranks first in my list of least liked corporations.

That’s an understatement.
Online MMOs farm players just like Nullsec groups farm the systems in their territory.
Some players don’t mind being farmed for screwy and glitchy games. Other player do not require an entire online ecosystem full of other players to be interested and have fun.
To each their own.

A certain group of consumers want that and there are plenty of games to subscibe to.
Others do not want subscriptions and there are plenty of games for them, too.
It would be incorrect to say that most players want Online subscription games.

Yes, unfortunately for developers. Players have the choice.
I am right now playing Farming Simulator 22. I don’t pay a subscription and all items are available from the start.
When I get bored of playing that I may log into EvE and do some missions or I may watch a movie or go for a walk. My choice.

If I want a persistent, evolving game environment then I expect to pay for it; not once, but over and over again, because that’s what ensures the ‘evolving’ part of the contract.

Of course, I can weigh up those recurring costs and make a judgment about value-for-money, but that’s entirely subjective. If I want to stay, I have to pay.

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i managed to access the game after some bright soul came to Discord and posted a workaround. It’s a very ‘hot’ fix, but I covered my bases, just in case.

The game looks great and seems promising. I’m at a very early stage, so can’t really comment further, but it’s definitely something I want to spend time with.

Paint supplies, paper, artists boards, brushes are free? equipment needed for the many arts and crafts projects are free?

No they are not. everything costs my friend. I we want to play around in a virtual world there is a cost which nobody can do anything about.

Actually yes we do, I always thought about the original Elite in 1984 being multiplayer. We can see how many people had the same thought by the number of players Eve, ED, SC has, millions upon millions. It is us who create the demand for specific games and folks like CCP try to provide it.

I didn’t say that if you’d like to go read me again… I said consumers want that so obviously I mean out of all gamers in the world a portion of them want what I said.

This is surely the bottom line, Drixie. But what appears to be a choice on the surface may not be a choice between equal options.

EVE is a good example. I could play as an Alpha pilot, but it would make my play activities impossible to maintain. I would, effectively, be left with nothing I wanted to do in the game, and therefore uninstalling would be my only realistic option.

Most of the professional software I currently use is now either already subscription based or is clearly in the process of transitioning to that model. I don’t like it but I can see why it’s done. I’ve accepted it because - like the disappearance of cash transactions at my municipal authority’s payment desks - it seems to be an unstoppable force!

Hmm, instead of the marketing slogan for Eve O being “Free to Pay” it should be “Free Limited Access”

“Free to Play” does seem a bit click baity because you will think its free to play as advertised. Really free to play is just so people can come and have a look at the game which is how they should advertise it.

I suppose this is quite normal in computing, I used a free video editing software which left their watermark on my video after it had finished processing. I suppose “free” now means “come have a look, if you like you can buy” lol.

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They’re all a one-time payment. I don’t spend on a monthy subscription for materials. Last time I spent on my arts stuff was a year ago and it sure didn’t cost €250.

The cost isn’t on me as far as EVE is concerned.

That’s good. You can continue to provide online game companies with cash. It is your choice.

Sorry If I misunderstood you.
So a portion of the world’s players want that. I guess it’s good for the online gaming industry.
I only play one online game and its advertisements say it’s a free game and it indeed is when one can play without a subscription.

But do you accept there are artists out there who spend more than £250 on materials? I’m pretty sure the highest quality paper which can provide good painting results isn’t free.

Well if you find Eve interesting and you wan’t to get involved then that cost will be your responsibility. take it or leave it.

I haven’t met one. We artists can create with wood, glass, colors and sand found in nature.

I buy my canvases for less than €10.
It isn’t the materials or the price of said that makes good art, it’s the skills of the artist.

It’s betting on two horses at once. CCP goes with the times and targets the younger crowds who are quite familiar with the “free games” they see wherever they look. The older generation knows the difference, and stick to their (cheaper) subscriptions.
EvE is “free to try”. Nothing is “free”, never was, never will be, especially not EvE. The teaser is there, and the older players see it for what it is. A few are even starting to see what the introduction of skinr with its plex structure in EvE really is. Cosmetics at the price of designer jeans, lol.
One has to be really bad at basic school arithmetic not to see the difference between the cost of “free to play” and a sub for the same result. Or one has to just happen to pass by for a few months and not engage with this particular game - which is most of the new accounts imo.

You pay for the service. If the service fails you stop being a customer. If the company doesn’t put matters straight again, it dies. That’s the fair, natural and correct flow. It’s not our responsibility to make sure the company is able to pay its employees - although we may care about it. EvE Online needs long term engagement (counted in years), and for that the sub is the far more honest option that a company can provide.

PS. Btw, did that PLEX turn up yet ?

You wrote too many words to repeat yourself.

That is not what the advertisement say. It doesn’t say “free but for the service” it just say “free to play”.

Your answer is in one of the currently posted threads. I’m not going over the same discussion in several threads at the same time. I am not here for your entertainment.