And if you don’t get a faction drop, which is more likely to happen than getting one for every 10 completed.
Then of course to get the chance to make 150 mil ph you need to run at least 10, so spend at leat 3.5 hours, if they are all next door to each other, more travelling reduces this further.
Without the “rare” faction drop, which you can’t include in hourly earnings as it is not guaranteed, you’re making 90 mil ph per member, risking a minimum 10 bil in ships.
Using T1 ships with T2 (and some faction) fittings, you’re looking at around 45 mil ph due to needing more on grid to complete the site.
NB; currently there is ONE faction module available for structures, there are 2 on market and no bpc’s available. Going by build cost and sell price the bpc is worth around 250 mil or 35 mil per member. By looking at market data, the same 2 modules have been for sale since mid December. I imagine demand for them isn’t all that high.
So CCP need to add more different modules and increase drop rates by about 100%
Now divide by the number of sites you have to run for them. RNG will average out over enough time, so it’s reasonable to say if you were going to seriously run the sites that you will get a BPC drop on a statistical basis.
However I’m in agreement with you, the risk is badly out of balance with the reward.
And further believe if the risk is so high, they shouldn’t be so common.
On average each signature earns 10M more per player with loots (we do average 3-4 per hour if we run (and also good spot)) so average 120-160 each hour each member (without the rarely drop)
The drop rate of the modules bpc is indeed 10% approximately
After we must take into account that we each have our motives, and as for drifters isk is not necessarily the driving force (and I already explained our motivations a little higher)
So our group just completed our first run at the Gurista fob since the most recent changes. Judging from the number of people and fleet and the payout it looks like if you want the full 800 mil you have to bring 40 people at 20 mil each, which will be our next test. I guess since we are the only other group running them, might as well offer our services. Feel free to mail me a offer for removing your local Guristas FOB.
As for CCP. this site is totally unbalanced in isk vs reward, either ease up on the risk, or balance the rewards better. Haveing at least one faction drop of somekind for each one.
Out of curiosity - How much did each of the 20 in fleet get for the one you completed?
How long did it take from start to finish to complete? From formup to warpout…
Why would you double the size of the fleet, which in turn reduces each members payout and causes more NPC’s to spawn?
I would have thought maximizing income ph while minimizing risk would have to have something to do with it.
FYI; Saying you are going to keep doing something while at the same time complaining about poor risks vs rewards, isn’t going to see the rewards increased or risk decreased.
Why would CCP rebalance the risk vs reward when there is obviously people willing to do them with the current setup…
Maybe it’s just me but after 10 years of Eve, I don’t do PVE for “fun”. I mainly do it out of boredom, I have more than enough isk and a decent income stream.
BUT, when I do PVE I want to maximize isk income or at least get something out of what i am doing. Rolling up to a structure and shooting it, while ignoring its defences just isn’t engaging or fun.
If FOBs are to stay they need to be balanced to remove the “shoot structure, ignore NPC’s” facet of them. Change the mechanic to something that will encourage players to shoot the NPC’s - IE; X amount of NPC’s need to be destroyed before the structure can be destroyed. Unfortunately this would entail someone at CCP being able to balance NPC spawns and adding bounties to NPC’s. No-one wants to engage NPC’s when for each one you destroy 3 more spawn, endlessly. No-one wants to waste time shooting NPC’s if there is no reward for them.
With the nature of everything PVP requiring ever larger fleets, it would be a nice change to have something to do that is challenging and or fun PVE wise.
NB; It doesn’t matter how advanced (real person like) the NPC AI is, if the only way to beat it is ignore it.
We are still willing to do them out of enjoying it. Everyone who took part said it was the best pve experience they had to date, this coming from people who are pvpers.
With 20 people it payed out 23.333333 mil . with comes out to 470 mil after rounding errors. IF the pay out for the group comes out to 800 mil with 40 people then it could be kinda worth it as bringing in alts last minute like incursions would be a thing. BUT it would be far far far better if 30 mil would be payed out individually for each member of the fleet up until 26 members, at which point it would be pushing 800 mil total payout.
That being said, the label on the tin said this is something alpha’s could run which is total BS. Either they fix the rewards so that they are competitive with HQ incursions which they are harder than, or they reduce the dificulty so a 30 man fleet of caracls can run the blasted thing with PVP fits. Either or would make me happy.
As a side note. we killed everything in site after the fob was down, 12 mil in salvage. which when you consider it isnt too bad, but it took a good while to kill them all.
Interesting - The total payout is 800 mil for a maximum of 40 fleet members but each player gets less the closer you get to the fleet size cap. Realistically you’re better off doing them with a smaller group which sort of defeats the overall purpose of them, getting people to work together.
Not very balanced but hey if your group likes doing them the rewards don’t matter as much.
As for the salvage, if it’s all going to one person 12 mil isn’t bad as a bonus but split between 20 people it’s a bit MEH. Especially when you say it took a while and the risk involved.
Hard pve is something that sounds good, as long as the rewards are there.
Incursions are hard and have high rewards, burners are hard and have high rewards. Sure now they may be “safe” but that’s because people put in the effort to learn the content, make fits, and have gained experience. Then carrier/super ratting is “safe” as people put in effort to defend their space. People start making mistakes and it can result in losses. You give me an incursion fleet and I’d have no idea how to FC it. Or give a newb a ratting super in a random lowsec system, well lets just say there will be no dank ticks.
but everything involving the npcs just doesn’t sound rewarding. The FoB data is in the thread, sounds like 40mil/site, and you can only do so many sites each day. and the rewards are just better elsewhere.
WIth the blood base it seems like almost everyone is better off just staying in their home system and ratting. every early attempt I’m aware of either used swarms of small kiting ships, or titans, and completely ignored the NPCs and focused on killing the Structure, looks like people are now using carrier/drone blobs, or titans + bombers to take them down https://zkillboard.com/group/1876/ I’m not going to say that it is unrewarding, but there is only so much demand for faction caps, and they are in irregular event
My vision for the sites would be for each npc to have enough value it is worth shooting. Bring a fleet and start shooting and spawning more enemies, a bunch of people playing actively together should make more than a bunch of anom soloers. This also puts a fleet in space which can lead to more content. Although that leaves a bit of a problem like what if you just have titans sitting on the thing boson chaining and getting stupid amounts of rewards. I think that’s something that can be worked through though.
Looks like a fun thing to do with people.
Appreciated OP for giving some insane and possible tactics on taking them down, especially resistances.
Really interested in group pve .
On a side note the amount of people coming out from under their rocks just yelling it doesnt pay meh enuf or why cant I solo it?!
Is kinda staggering.
Ccp keep smentioning that incursions pay out too much isk and people are up in arms that FOB dont pay even more. Ever has too many isk rivers, esspecially in high sec as people are now making more in high than nul (with the exception of carrier ratting) and even the isk and team work to even set that up is huge compared to the dangers and isk cost of setting up.
Also shout out to all the people that when the OP tells you a way to kill new content, came out like angry bees shouting that they didnt get the exact thing they wanted, free isk, and blaming him like its his fault.
Be happy there is new content, play the game, and stop complaining that eve doesnt have a strick power creap
The matter is not one specific part of this. It’s the sum of those issues :
it needs to make a fleet specific for this
the fleet must be as good as for incursions
the rewards as lower than incursions
it’s harder to repeat them like for incursions
basically, it’s seen, from a repeatable event’s point of view, as just bad incursions.
Now sure you can enjoy it. Try to beat it. Maybe succeed, maybe lose billions in the process. Then what ? Will you keep doing it again ? Instead of doing it, you can do incursions more easily, for more money total, better isk/h. In the end, there is just annoying spawns in the system that kill miners and dont get concord’oken.
You only see this as a good event because you don’t project in the future. Eve is all about future projection (market, fights, advertisement, career, skills, industry … and isk making)
npcs just doesn’t sound rewarding. The FoB data is in the thread, sounds like 40mil/site, and you can only do so many sites each day. and the rewards are just better elsewhere.