I don’t have true data, so I cannot show it.
First, check out this graph, look familiar?
Here you go, WoW and EvE overlapped with the years matching up. Look at that, it matches up quite nicely. Why don’t you go to the WoW forums and talk about how the game is dying over there?
Or… maybe… it’s the whole MMORPG market trend, and Eve Online is doing just fine.
2 Likes
Super!
So why are you saying they’re fake if you don’t know the real ones?
It’s not logical. Criticism for the art of criticism?
Pathetic.
At the bottom of the article, the author shows the sources of the information. You negate the sources, but you can’t show others with true data. What right do you have to say that the author is lying?
I did primary source research. Your article is tertiary. Do you disagree with my data?
Just because I do not have the real data does not mean I cannot recognise when someone makes up fake data, or copies someone else’s made up fake data.
I don’t care about WoW. I’m interested in EvE online. If there is a global trend and gamers leave their favourite games, there must be a reason. MMORPG crisis?
Second, if EvE-online is so fantastic and has a super community (subject for next post), why is it not growing? There are so many adverts on the Internet and nothing.
At the same time, Star Citizen (OK, a different type of game) is growing even if still is in an alfa state.
If gamer’s preferences change, maybe it’s high time for CCP to take action.
None of these points are worth addressing. These are questions that pose conclusions as priors. There is no sense for anyone to engage with this unless they already agree with you. Which I don’t.
Your feelings, unfortunately, are a very subjective argument. You think the data is false, but you can’t even substantiate it.
The guy gave the source you can’t, but I’m supposed to believe you because you have a hunch?
Sorry, I’m not buying this. That’s why I gave this article here to check the data, but I see that there are no others so far.
If you track sources, 110k players is a speculation based on the annual financial report.
I expect a discussion about that, not an attack against me.
I assume you must have missed the screenshots I added to my earlier post that explain exactly how the sources got their data?
Please scroll up, and apologize for falsely accusing me of not substantiating my claims.
Do you believe that subreddit usage numbers is a good enough guess to determine player number fluctuations over time?
This guy is hilarious. Ignores my points and data 5 times in a row. He’s just a troll. Seeking confirmation bias, feigning intellectual curiosity.
3 Likes
Wait, I don’t think that the article is negative. In fact is is positive and the reality will be much worse.
I don’t know if @Io_Koval is a diehard EVE-lover who refuses to accept that the game he plays would be in any way wrong, but he has a point. The article is using made up sources from some subreddit for its claims. There is no link to the original source, neither there is explained what methodology he used to come up with those numbers. The fact is that there are no legit data for that, CCP is not revealing that.
I don’t expect you to agree; that would be boring.
However, the argument of your hunch is not very constructive and convincing. After that, it doesn’t explain anything.
I have nothing to apologize for (nice sociotechnical trick 
). If you really read that thread, you should see I never take a side. I put the article to discuss the thesis inside.
Other suggestions that this is another covert thread called “EvE is dying” are really pathetic.
To sum up,
if no one is able to show that this data is false by adding some sources of information other than their own hunches, then it’s time to close this discussion because it is drifting toward discussion about discussion.
So far, all we know is that they may be inaccurate.
It is not a hunch, as I have data. If mine is a hunch, then so is yours as by your own argument you have data, if you had consistent internal logic.
The fact that you consistently refuse is a reflection of your bias. You can keep saying “I have taken no sides” and “I have only just placed an article out as a thesis” but your actions and conduct say otherwise.
So do you have data or not? Decision please.
If you have, please share it with me.
I shared screenshots with visible url that explain why the dafa is false.
That is not ‘a hunch’, it’s a solid verifyable argument, one you are consistently ignoring or downplaying by calling it ‘a hunch’.
The sources of your article literally say that their data ‘may in many cases not be accurate at all’ and that you ‘need to look elsewhere for accurate numbers’.
This is a point. I intended to verify that info. But I’m not interested in @Io_Koval hunches.
Reject that because someone believes it is a fake is not an option. Sorry.
The thesis this forum has endlessly discussed is simple:
The MMORPG market as a whole is past its golden years of 2010. The players who follow fads and have an attention span short enough to care about “not-dead game” type of rhetoric have long moved on and its not worth capturing their money to compromise a game’s premise, integrity, world-building, and game mechanics.
If that were true, then we would expect a couple things:
- A lot of subscription based MMOs to have died since “the peak”, surviving MMOs would have reduced player counts.
- Players would have reached a somewhat steady state after a sharp decline after the glory years as fans of the genre remain, and fad-chasers do whatever it is these days.
To support the first point, a lot of MMOs have died in or after 2010. 41 have died in years year 2010-2017 (inclusive, 7 year span). Only 20 or 21 died in the 6 years after that. This is countable on wikipedia. Twice as many died shortly after the peak than in the second half of time, suggesting that the MMO market as a whole was contracting at that time period. Player number shrinkage would not be unique to Eve Online, but affect that whole market. Those that survive, do so on lower numbers. Those that don’t, die off and quickly.
For the second point, Both WoW and Eve Online – two MMORPG games with approximate longitudinal data – correlate strongly. I’ve shown you the graph already. This shows that the population movements of both have similar swings. They are very different types of MMORPGs (Sandbox and Themepark) with very different kinds of content releases, so we would expect them to be uncorrelated. Yet they are correlated. Any analysis that looks at only one of these games can’t possibly understand this line of argument – by definition, correlation requires two or more things to compare – so it’s a limitation of your original article.
So why is it correlated, and why does it support the second point? Again, the hypothesis is that sticks on the forums is that the general overall MMO market happens to influence both. And the correlation supports that hypothesis.
Therefore, in conclusion, I present to you a cited, sourced argument.
You now have:
- Your OP: a tertiary source with unsourced citations of other peoples’ analysis of unavailable primary source data and unknown methodology, analyzing a single game; and
- My post: a secondary source citing links to primary sources (the images above are easy to get if you do simple searches) with the actual reasoning and methodology laid bare, ready for criticism.
I know you’re entrenched to believing your OP at this point. I don’t expect you to change your mind. I present this argument mainly so I can bookmark it and just copy/paste the bookmark link and save myself time in the future when someone like you comes around and makes the same “only asking questions” or “i read an article and have no opinions” bait again.
4 Likes
From About Server Population & Player Count - MMO Populations
So, we do it based on reddit subscriber information. We track the current subscribers, active users and history of both. This helps you to choose an MMO that has the required “activity” you’d like to see, or perhaps you are just interested.
Accuracy of data
Of course the data is not extremely accurate, or in many cases, accurate at all. There is no way of really getting MMO subscriber numbers today. If you need accurate numbers you will have to look for publicly released data, use steam users, or whatever method is available.
This is the source of your data.
Do you really want to claim that it is a reliable source?
Or that my claim that their data is false is ‘a hunch’?
2 Likes
The guy literally won’t believe parts of his own article in order to believe the rest of his own article more. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
1 Like