That isn’t what was discussed.
As if I needed to prove anything to you, lol.
I’m glad you think you won.
I’d say it’s actually close to impossible to “screw up” training in Eve. Please link a skillboard and tell us what’s so wrong with the current state of your character.
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Er…noooo. See, the amount of skill points you get per skill injector varies. If you bought those skill injectors after you had 5m SP then you’d have got 400,000 SP and not 500,000 SP. Two people who had the exact same overall SP would effectively have paid up to 20% difference for them depending on whether they bought injectors before or after reaching 5m SP. The person who got the injectors after 5m SP is paying the same amount to get less SP.
Thus there really isn’t an equivalence akin to ‘getting the SP back’…not when two people can have paid different amounts for the same SP.
You make it sound simple but it isn’t. Which 1m SP are you going to re-allocate ? The ones that give your railgun skills ? Your shield skills ? Your navigation skills ? Etc. Where are you taking these 1m SP from ? You can’t just randomly cream off a bunch of SP with no idea of the impact. Not least because some skills are ship or race specific whilst others are generic across all ships.
This way of thinking inevitably makes people miserable. Fear of doing something different, because it rewards them less financially. It goes for the game, it goes for real life. Sticking at a crappy job because it pays better, instead of finding something they actually enjoy doing.
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You’ve over-complicated the situation and lost your grasp of the numbers. If a character has 14 or 20 or 33.627 million skillpoints, then that’s exactly 14 or 20 or 33.627 million skillpoints. How they got them, how long they trained for them, what process they used - all irrelevant.
A respec would simply remove all your skills (but not your paid/injected skillbooks) and give you back your current SP total as unallocated SP. Which is why it’s simple enough that even CCP could do it without blowing up too many other things.
The SP numbers aren’t the issue. Whether it would do more good than harm is debatable. The base OP concept is either a little unfair in applying to “low SP characters” (why only low? Why don’t vets get to do it?) or quite unbalancing if you let all SP amounts do it. It would knock major holes in the injector market for sure.
At any rate, it’s not the sort of thing CCP has ever shown any inclination towards. If people want to try something out, CCP would suggest what @Solonius_Rex said, “try it with easy level 1 skills first”, or would recommend expert systems, or would say bite the bullet and go for injectors.
I don’t see anything wrong with the concept of cheaper, lower-penalty self-only extractor/injectors. It’s just unlikely CCP would implement such a thing unless some game changes came along that seriously re-adjusted skills. In which case they’d just refund (or ‘respec’) all the changed skills anyway.
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I wonder if you can pull a stunt like this in say WoW, or GW2, or w/e MMO with a reputation: to train up your “ranger”, then go “nah, I want him/her to be a necromancer” and flippity flappity, magic happens.
Eve, the game where every decision brings a consequence. Want to get good, have to make the right decisions.
Sure, let’s get rid of the biggest consequence available in the game in terms of mechanics. What a Great Idea.
/sarcasm
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I do understand that there’s a lot of elitism and you should face consequences for making mistakes. I do believe that I shouldn’t be able to fully respec my character due to it’s age alone.
Issue is that this can very quickly ruin the game for someone new. They have say 4m sp which is a good few months training. They joined a corp that made them skill into their ships and then they left that corp and now all that time is pretty much wasted.
(of course there’s basic skills that you get that works for everything blah blah) Fact of the matter is that they can’t fly anything else unless it’s a basic frig. This can be very demotivating and would just make the player quit more likely than not.
Most games have a way of respecing. I’m not saying it needs to be full sp gain or anything. All the numbers I pulled from my ass and would obviously need to be checked and perfected. I’m offering an idea for low sp characters to be able to respec.
And if you want to suggest for low sp characters to inject / extract that’s just funny. I would like to see you farming that in a reasonable amount of time while still funding your ships with a character under 5m sp.
It’s not irrelevant. The point is that one person’s 33.627 million skillpoints is not ‘equivalent’ to another person’s if more effort or ISK has been put into getting them in the first place. The original point was about ‘getting back’ stuff…and my point was that ALL you ‘get back’ is the SP, not the equivalent effort put into them. Maybe it is too subtle a point to grasp.
Honestly if it was possible with a loss of 10-20% it’d still be better than to just not have the option.
Sure, but you are not ‘getting back’ whatever effort was applied in the first place. And sure…if you don’t mind a 10-20% loss compared to someone who did not make the same effort or apply the same ISK, then fine. But people should be aware that they are trading their past effort on the cheap in some cases.
Also…nobody has answered the question of where the re-allocated SP is going to be skimmed off from.
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There are some pilots that really need to respec their skills to be less loud and rude with other pilots.
If a miner is in a hurry to reach a favourite asteroid belt, that miner doesn’t need some rude and loud pirate yelling at them saying “hey I am talking to you, don’t warp away!
It’s not elitism, its the fact that Eve is based on forward planning and consequences of such, not on retrospective ’ gosh…I wish I’d done that instead '. Otherwise why not just ‘undo’ every mission where anyone loses a ship, in some eternal Groundhog Day until they get it right. What you are really asking for is that people be able to undo the consequences of their bad planning, and to me that is anathema in a game like Eve. You make your choice, you take the consequences and live with them.
As for the system being unfair on noobs…it is equally unfair on all noobs. Get over it. Those of us still in the game did.
This is just such a silly, make-believe problem.
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let players abuse the system, it’s not like CCP did prevent many forms of abuse all over and everywhere
abuse is fine, there’s all kinds of abuse in every direction already, it’s not gonna be this one that would be the last drop in the bucket
your idea is ok, but it’s just that it would not super significant to the EVE universe, it’s a nice thing to have on the side
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The Elitism and entitlement is coming from you though.
You literally said,
Youre basically saying that youve played the game so much, and you have so much experience and making so much ISK/hr that starting with a new career path, starting from the bottom, is beneath you, and an insult.
And yet every single player here has done it, and we havent quit the game yet.
Youre talking about the equivalent of respeccing an entire Class, though. And no Game comes to mind that allows you to do that.
Does WoW let you respec from Death Knight to Druid?
Does Guild Wars let you respec from Warrior to Necromancer?
Does FF14 let you respec from Summoner into Dragoon?
The “Way of respeccing” that youre talking about, is what you do when you switch ships. You switch from a mining ship to a combat ship. You switch from a Mining module to a turret weapon module. This is the way to respec in EVE.
Youre 30m sp though. Infact, youre so high that 10m isk/hr is an insult to you, because you make 200m/hr or whatever.
Again, youre being dishonest. Its not a 5m, new player youre asking this for. Its a 50m SP player, including you, 30m, that youre asking for.
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Basically. Hell, that is eve. New homes, new fleet doctrines. Even if they have grand schemes to find stable less pvp oriented WH homes…they will learn many doctrines. and keep the sp’s for the old ones. Wh X is one doctrine, wh y is another learned a year ago if they stay.
I sense miner regret from some. I was there on one char. If they went all in on processing/mining no empathy. My miner drone killed belt rats. She was good at it.
it gave me something to do staring at a laser which can get boring. I made it a game…how many rat wrecks do I build up lol.
So when I saw the lie that is “mining is great”…pve combat retrain started with…drone heavy boats. High slots came later, drone dps carried me at first, pg and cpu skills were there as was some tanking. THere was the basis to smoother conversion.
And now they have extractors. Sometimes on sale. If 2010 had these ngl…I’d have picked up 1 or 2 of them.
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I agree with any fines that are issued to me by only one pirate in New Eden.
It was written by James315 long before my time too.
Nothing wrong with elitism, chess is elitist. Chess players don’t ask for rules on “wrong” moves to be changed. If you want to call EvE elitist (it has been in the past), well there are probably quite a few EvE long term players who are proud they’ve managed to survive and maybe thrive in a notoriously unforgiving game that punishes every mistake.
So does EvE. It’s done via the training queue and everything that supports it. All it takes is time, which can be used to reflect on choices (about to be) made.
The very thing that happened to many of us (and also why I wrote earlier “stick to the plan”), including myself. There’s always the next fleet doctrine, and if you were stuck like me on armor tanked ships while my alliance mainly flew shield doctrines, you have to know what you’re doing (and perhaps just fly a support role that you can grab in a matter of hours or a few days at most).
The OP started with 33M sp. As @Solonius_Rex pointed out, that can hardly be called low sp. Let’s consider the following scenario for now.
- A player with a pool of 30M sp has skilled into manufacturing, has access to some modest t2 ship building, runs his own reactions to reduce costs, because there’s good money in it (economy unlike today, but it’s a scenario). He’s reasonably satisfied until …
- He hears about the new flavor called “Incursions”. He reassigns his pool of 30M on the fly to be able to use the top of the piramid Nightmare, shield tanked, t2 beams, the whole lot. Makes a ton of isk he’d normally not be able to until …
- ccp nerfs Incursions and bans them mostly to lowsec, cutting off most of his income. But ! He uses his 30M sp the next day to spec right into the top marauder, not just any marauder, the very best for mission running. Not all he hoped it would be, the missions are rather boring after a while etc. Until …
- he reads something about the new FW releases, and how much profit one can make from the LP. No problem, our boy looks up the very best ships to fly, hopefully reads a few things on tactics, joins up with a friendly group, et voila. Isn’t redistribution of sp just a wonderful courtesy from ccp ? It sure is.
No consequences, only cherry picking. That would not be a problem if it were limited to a single player (as it virtually is with skill injectors). It does become a huge problem when it is unlimited and available to everyone, not only for the in game-economy but certainly for its playability and the diversity in activities required to make it be the game it is. You’d also make the devs’ lives impossible…
When you water the proposal further down to 4M sp, and how tough it would be to fund e.g. skill injectors… How about making extra alpha accounts, you can have as many as you want, skill all of them up in endless variety. Think you have one you like ? Make it omega, turn the one you no longer like into alpha. You can do all of those training queues in parallel without paying a single cent/penny extra nor need injectors. And if we’re talking only alphas, who are just trying out stuff, it’s not even a discussion.
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Skill extractors are your friend here.
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