I mean if you’re going to fit mining lasers each worth more than the rest of your ship, you’re asking to be ganked regardless. The ~20% more ehp you’d have before the change wouldn’t be enough to save you, and it shouldn’t.
You should either:
But it should be, and always was, a risk.
Yeah, 10k is what I’m losing across the board, but I’m losing about 14k vs Void.
I’m not complaining. Even without my orca links, it’s still around 95k tank vs Void, 70k vs omni.
I often spend my time explaining things to people who are ignorant about hisec ganking. And today is not going to be an exception.
This level of tank matters in a game where solo players multi-box ganking fleets, at the previous level most miner focussed gankers struggled on their own to gank those two ships as they could not support the required number on their own. So they had to get a friend to join in, which reduced the possibility of ganking, most do this solo by the way.
So now we have taken a large slice of tank off of both ships, add to that mining lasers that are worth a large amount of ISK and very soon a solo multi-boxing miner ganker will be able to afford to solo even skiffs with just his own characters.
Thus having a bad impact on hisec mining. I expect that neither of you two will be able to get this, but, CCP does not either.
Am I being sarcastic and condescending, yes, but sometimes I feel that I can.
Interesting changes…much to like:
Love the combination of how the drone waste and the booster mining ships, that depend on them, will scale in the right direction–so more isn’t better and actually limits the potential of every belt and system etc. We need more stuff in the game like this–good stuff. The simplification of crystal types is a good move in the right direction as well.
Cap build changes are probably good.
Gas compression finally and awesome, though I do think this should have stayed in the frigate wheelhouse.
Not too crazy about the proc changes…IMO it was in a good place a strong deterrent for gankers, survivability to handle more rats even in null and slots, and agility to escape–all in exchange for mining potential. The proposed change makes it too much like the others.
I think you’re missing the point too, friend.
I do not think you should feel free to fit lasers worth hundreds of millions each and not worry about losing it.
The tank nerf on my Skiff, at least, means it will take approximately 1 less Catalyst to kill me than before.
Its still going to take around 6-7 Catalysts to gank me in a 0.5, and that’s without figuring in my Orca boosts.
Is it possible? Sure, but it always was.
Is it easier? Yeah, but it probably should be, the tank on these things was frankly ridiculous.
Should you fit faction lasers and not worry about being ganked in hisec? Nope, and you never should have. If you fit them, they can be lost.
If you were considering fitting faction lasers on your Skiff, I don’t see how being ganked by 1 less Catalyst makes much of a difference?
And FYI, I am familiar with hisec ganking, I’ve participated a few times myself, and have many friend who do. I’ve never been ganked though, through a combination of tanky fits, paying attention, choosing where I mine, and honestly a bit of luck.
You are missing the point. I made it and you are ignoring it.
The tank of a Skiff covered the number of accounts ran by the most prolific miner ganker and thus forced him to do it with friends. This is important, you can waffle around it however much you like but you are missing the point.
Wow, talk about ignoring the key issue, it matters because we are talking about what a player can afford to run multi-boxing from mining loot and SP farms without losing their sanity, Wow, just wow…
So what you’re saying is that the loss of 1 Catalyst worth of tank moves you under the account threshold of some ganker that’s prolific where you mine? That’s a bit arbitrary, considering various gankers maintain different numbers of accounts, but ok.
You’ve still got options:
See if you can adapt your fit.
Find fleet boosts.
Mark his accounts and watch local.
Mine somewhere else.
Or, you can complain on the forums that losing 1 Catalyst’s worth of EHP isn’t fair because of your specific need for that exact amount of EHP. I’m sure that will work.
But just discussing it “regularly” is not enough.
You also have to bring solutions or suggestions to it.
Something overlooked a bit as well I think, is that, frankly, the skiff and proc are becoming dps buzzsaws with the change as well… if you’re at keyboard and can razor through one or two gankcats during the twenty seconds of gank, you’re more likely to live
I mean if I was with my friends and ship scanned you, and saw you had faction lasers, I’d pull together whoever I could to gank you, and they’d be all over it.
It’s just too inviting a target, imo.
That’s true. I’m curious what the actual dps numbers turn out to be, but it looks a bit scary honestly.
It’s an interesting take to remove the drone HP bonus though.
I think CCP should introduce a penalty free skill extraction to those who no longer wish to mine with Rorqual.
I only have 2 accounts that fly them but the time to skill and isk invested should be compensated if your going to nerf them to the ground and penalise solo miners.
A capital mining ship should still mine more than any other ship, many rorq pilots have kept their ships docked up for the past 2 years waiting for better days, and now we know better days aren’t coming.
Why risk a 8bil fitted rorq to boost a mining fleet when you can do it for a quarter of the price…
This is the death of the Rorqual.
F
Proc is looking like, no DDA, high 300s, low 400s probably. Skiff, 450 easy no DDAs, and I think that’s a good thing
The yields stay the same so if I’m using 1 mackinaw for 1hr I will still get the same amount of ore except it will be less minerals when I reprocess so in the end I’m in a loss.
Or perhaps you’re forcing me to play multiple accounts in order for the change to benefit a small miner? I dont see any other way this would benefit a solo miner except if you sub another account(s) and boost for yourself and compress on the grid to save time and not go to the station. Or if I spend more time in an asteroid belt which I don’t want to.
But you wouldn’t be so brazen to introduce game changes that force people to pay more, would you now?
For the rorquals,
The rorquals you can add and even keep 90% of the yield they have now.
Lower the Panic module to max 1 minute time than rorquals have a small saving point so they will not just be online.
you make the mining does about 10% slower which make them can be shoot by people and getting drones kills.
removing even more capitals from the field is not good they are needed for content for multi groups even hunting to hurt other null sec alliance for bombers bar to NPS Fleets.
Hulks are nice kills but there is no better feeling than killing a rorqual in space.
Make the game deeper like in t2 not remove more game plays.
Mining is already the most boring game play in the game but it’s needed people want to wast less time in games look World of Warcraft vs FFXI and New World.
Corona is up and down but that is keeping most of your players still in the game this patch is a kick in everyones face.
Make random blackouts if you want more risk in the game.
increase rewards where there is blackouts people will go out do stuff.
With out capitals been made or use we lose a huge part of the game play.
I agree to little rorquals are dying but this changes will just get them in the hangers like happens with Supers and Titans.
We need to increase game play not just remove it over and over
How many supers died since the supers been nerfed?
How many Titans been killed after industry changes?
If you want people use their toys they need to get the reward if a rorqual is 12-13 B isk they can have a high yield if people want to risk those ships they should get something back for it just lower the panic mode …
That’s incorrect. The mackinaw is seeing a net 33% increase to ore mining yield, and a 16% increase to ice mining yield.
If you mine 100 units of some ore in an hour, you’ll now mine 133.
Separately, the waste mechanic means AT WORST the total amount of material available in an asteroid will remain the same (basic t1 modules, drones, etc). If you use t2 lasers with the appropriate crystals, you can get up to 50% more total ore out of a full asteroid, and with faction lasers, up to 100% more total ore.
A suggestion from me - maybe a stupid one - but one to think about.
What if CCP mines the wastes into the gases found in signatures?
If, for example, Veldspar is mined in a system, then the “cheapest” gas can be harvested 1 hour later at the same point.
Mercoxit already creates a gas cloud that simply has to be patched into the “most expensive” gas.
So the simple ore can generate the simple gases as waste and the most valuable gas comes out at Mercoxit.
I’m pretty sure it’s deliberate.
For the same reasons moon compression was unavailable to begin with.
Please explain how mackinaw is seeing a net 33% increase.
Not at all what I am saying. It is what you are saying.
I have been involoved in AG for a long time, I have analysed , watched and shot many gankers. I have studied their costs, how they fund themselves and so on over many years.
I am telling you that the Skiff and Proc were important mining ships for hisec miners because they required miner gankers to gang up with another miner ganker. That meant that it was a deterrence that was effective above the value of that tank.
If people are not able to work out how important it is, and this include CCP then I have to wonder.
You say you did a little bit of ganking, well that makes you what, an expert, it does not I can assure you.
If there was no need to have faction mining lasers then this change would have been fine. I am going to use T2, but many people will go faction, thus increasing the wealth of miner gankers and making them able to run more accounts and having a knock on effect on what they are able and willing to gank.
It may on the surface look OK now, but if too many people start using these faction mining lasers then it will be a bit of a blood bath.
Take freighter ganks as an example, they got so rich that they started ganking empty freighters because they could. Does that help in understanding the potential issue?
I made my point, I just have to wait and see if this happens, it all depends on how many people foolishly use these faction mining lasers, I hope that hardly any, which might be the case as many don’t seem happy with this.