From Extraction to Production

[Mouz_Ozran]

Is the endurance meant to have 1 turret slot still? Based on the new bonuses it looks like it should have 2 like the Prospect, but currently it has 1 on the test server. With one turret it mines less than half of a Venture now.

[aldarrin]

No, that’s not how the math works on this. Once you factor in everything (ore hold sizes, drone travel time, warping to athanor to dump fuel, etc) 1 pre-nerf Rorq = 2 post nerf Hulks (if you have boosts). So to replace the yield from 1 Rorq, you still need that Rorq + two alts in Hulks. The Hulks will be BLOPs hunted and you’ll eventually down ship to procurers to replace losses easier and will need more alts. It’s cash grab requiring mining to use stupid amounts of multiboxing to achieve the same ISK / hr they can now. Without subbing more accounts mining makes HALF what it currently does. Do the math or find someone like Angry Mustache that did if you can’t.

[aldarrin]

Cool. Also from the Blog and from multiple CSMs: Only Rorqs can compress Moon Goo. Please do your homework.

[CCP_Psych]

Thank you all for the feedback so far. Keep it coming. We did push everything to the test server for a reason!

Below you can see a non-exhaustive list of things we will be looking into immediately (well from Monday on):

• Revisiting all cycle times for all compression modules
• Reducing the Orca Industrial Core cycle duration
• All Waste Probabilities will be revisited. We will be looking into using the same profile for drones as in modules
• Ways to bring back gas harvesting bonuses to frigates. This might have a further effect of introducing Barges/Exhumers gas bonuses
• Potential increase of fitting attributes for Barges/Exhumers
• Adjusting the Porpoise main and specialized holds
• What the implication would be if we allow moon ore compression with a 90% efficiency in structures
• Adding a PvP timer when Type C crystals are used in highsec.
• Changing the pre-requisites for Gas/Ice compression skills
• Potential increase of high slots for the Orca and the Porpoise

Here are some answers to frequently asked questions:

• We haven’t made a decision yet if waste should be taken into account in the industry index calculations. Feel free to discuss pros and cons in this thread.
• Mining Missions will be addressed before release. Finalizing quantities will be determined by where we will end up on the waste probabilities profile for T1 modules.

[Carolus_Magnus]

You were veering off, far from base, and responding to me as though I’d said or implied things I never did. You still are. Seems little point in continuing.

[May_Q_Cry]

The waste comes from the asteroid, not what you harvest.

With t1 strip miners or lasers, or mining drones, the waste is 100%. If an asteroid is 1,000 m3 that means you will end up with 500m3 and 500m3 will be lost as “space dust” (If my math is correct.)

If your module mines 100 m3 per cycle, you still get the 100 m3 in your ore hold at the end of each cycle, but 100m3 is lost from the asteroid. But, they are doubling the size of the asteroids.

This is understanding of it at least.

[chez1962]

some math for mining

[Richter_Talon]

And yet, you continue.

[Richter_Talon]

I would like to say thank you for listening to us. Even if not all the changes to the plan we’ve posted here are acted on, you are at least showing that you are willing to listen. That’s what we’re asking for, so again, thank you.

[Death_Killer21]

Clearly you have not properly listened. Rorquals are still being hit hard, And why should my 10b investment, 5 min pin cycle, And 6 - 9 months training mine LESS than a Covetor that takes 2 weeks to train and is 50m…

[Dirk_Stetille]

I am looking forward to watching all the Type-C miners getting CONCORDed due to PvP timers - it will be hilarious.

Fantastic suggestion, really well thought-out, it totally didn’t take 30 seconds for that issue to spring to mind.

[Vincent_Dekard]

Give us a reason to use rorquals. Or at least offer skill point refunds.

[Thadius_Faran]

PLEASE, PLEASE give the Primae a BETTER buff! The Endurance is faster, tankier, and MORE CARRY CAPACITY than the Primae under the current spreadsheet!

[Lauralite_Anne_Brezia]

A pleasure to see these additional changes and adjustments @CCP_Psych , thank you for bringing them forward, and I look forward to more. Keep pushing, keep taking things into account, but keep seeing it through.

[General_Grevious1]

5.995 to 2.520 Thats really painful to whatch.

[General_Grevious1]

The fuel bay is already in the orca changes

[Carolus_Magnus]

@Tsumi_Tzestu

@Carolus_Magnus

This all presumes that a person’s belief in their entitlement to 10 barge’s and an orca’s worth of yield is not excessive, revolting and anti-social to begin with, such that they would feel the need to up from 10 to 12 or 13 after changes.

Bro i could careless what other people mine with , how many accounts they have to do so. I sure can’t afford 10 accounts nor would I want to manage 10 accounts even if I could. Seems more like than hassle than anything.

I used to have 2 accounts , main one being a miner with hulk , and the second with an orca providing boost, which is perfectly fine , it won’t upset your little fantasy of fair equality being probed the wrong way. 2 account is fine right ?

But over the years i’ve got tired , i realised i was spending money on an account just so it could mine i wasn’t doing anything else with it… So i resorted to only using the Orca which is perfectly fine in my book.

I see the Orca as a “end game goal” for solo miners to achieve , the training time , the ISKS cost behind it, is all reward with the storage you have and the boost it can provide if you’re in a corp with other fellow miners. as for the Mining it was doing with it’s drone , it was on par with a Skiff… what’s wrong with that ? give a boost to the Skiff and the skiff outshines the Orca , The Orca cannot receive any boost , it’s Capped at that rate and won’t ever change. In my book it was perfectly balanced in the state it was.

Not sure what all that was about. You appear to be responding to imaginary words I never said, while quoting ones I did say like they’re the same thing.

@Tsumi_Tzestu

@Carolus_Magnus

As for the changes either failing to curtail or indeed even encourage multibox miners, I don’t think anything ever will. The problem isn’t really one of game mechanics, but of personality and neurosis. That’s something CCP will never be able to solve. Such people lack imagination, and focus so severely on just one or two metrics as measurements of success or efficiency, that they’re unable to look at the whole picture and account for savings or gains elsewhere. You’re probably right, in so far as these changes don’t actually represent a nerf to multiboxers.

Oh boy… You my friend have an issue with self righteousness or something of the sort, It’s a video game of course the majority of players want to be as efficient as possible at the task they are doing , either it be Mining , Manufactury , Mission running , PvP , Abyssal etc. Not trying to achieve perfection in those domain that interests them is just asking to waste time and isks. Yes it’s a waste it’s a waste on top of the compression waste.

Irrelevant, since the definition of efficiency will now change.

@Tsumi_Tzestu

Like i said in my previous post , the multiboxer is an issue but CCP will not fix that because it’s their bread and butter , they have created a game that rely on others to be successful with Corporation / Alliance in mind, the only way for a Solo player to push in certain activity like mining for example to be as efficient or at least bare minimum to be able to have fun is to give in with multiboxing, pursuing this change just enphasis the use of multiboxing multiple accounts because it removed the way the Orca / Rorq was designed for in the first place.

@Tsumi_Tzestu

Put your self righteous pride aside and look at it carefully, does it benefit the multiboxers or no ?
Yes , yes it does, Two key factors here:
#1 they gave bonus to boosting (more yield)
#2 they can compress in belt (less travel time , less down time, can move from belt to belt without the need to drop at a station).

Irrelevant. I don’t care what benefits them, or whether what they believe is true or false. You seem to have me confused with them. If they’re wrong about it hurting them, go tell them that if it bothers you that they misunderstand. Again, you’re acting like you’re responding to me, but are basically just sounding off on a straw man of your imagination.

@Tsumi_Tzestu

Does it benefits solo miner or no ?
No, Orca / Rorq pilot have been crippled by this.
Barge & Exhumers seems to have received some nice buffs, but the way they changed the belts it’s making it feel like a chore , having to bookmark every ores cause they are far apart from each other therefor Reinforcing the need of a second account to give the boost they required to avoid having to bookmark ores…

Rorq, maybe, I haven’t really looked at the rorq because I don’t care about it. Your point on this one may well be valid, but it’s best directed elsewhere, than at me.

The Orca is fine with the compact core mod. It’s not crippled at all.

As for your specific playstyle and all that stuff about range, I already addressed that previously, which you’re just ignoring. Not everyone is going to find it as difficult to adapt as you, or come to the same conclusions.

When people start going in circles like this, it’s time to close off. Thank you for your replies. It’s a shame we couldn’t see eye to eye, but that tends to happen if you ignore what they say and just project on to them. Have a good evening.

[Nucanot]

That’s not good enough!

Ending scarcity doesn’t mean changing things around so it’s about the same as during scarcity.

You promised scarcity would “firmly end” in Q4. That means more than just mining–ratting, exploration, abyssals, etc.

Not to mention the screw up that is capitals right now.

[Andrew_Kouva]

tbh it seams like the only people this update effects is the null indy guys that muilt-box 5 rouqs, and it seam like there the only ones getting mad over all of it. i myself am a pirate so this effects me in the least amount, so maby im not seeing the whole pic

[Plaid_Rabbit]

Hey, I’m happy that you’re seriously looking at changes to this. In the future you may be able to reduce the amount of headaches by coming to the community publicly about the change. Just put up a public post about what you’re trying to do (then it’s fair, no one got any pre-notice), and a couple of the best ideas, before you even invest dev time into it. You’ll probably have some spreadsheet warriors do half your job for you.

PS get rid of waste. I hate that part of this because it punishes newbies.

And fix gas huffing, that’s the real problem in the supply chain for capitals. You could just literally lower the Cap component BPO’s requirements for the Fullerite items, without having to deal with complex ripples from changing gas huffing. Lower it 40%, see how it goes. Lower it more if needed. Those knobs were put into the system for a reason, use them. You could not do any of the other gas changes if you just change this one knob.