From Extraction to Production

First that will be great to make modification in Expedition frigate / Barge / Exhumer

Prospect - Role bonus Gas / Merco
Endurance - Role bonus Ore / Ice

Procurer - Gas / Merco
Retreiver - Ice
Covetor - Ore

Skiff - Gas / Merco
Mackinaw Ice
Hulk Ore

Please adjust the tank of this ship (don’t forget this ship can be used everywhere in EVE. The best ratio will be to put all shield resistance to 30 %. Right now it’s impossible to tank against sansha or blood (layout 0 EM resistance).

Make only one hold ( ore or Gaz or ice). This ship msut be shield tank, don’t need armor bonus in the layout.

About the expedition frigate : This ship are make for mining not to open cyno or trap …

About compression module: right now on Sisi they are too much compression module.

Compression module

  • Ice compression T1 / T2
  • Ore compression T1 / T2 (also for merco)
  • Gas compression T1 / T2
  • Moon compression T1 / T2

We can fit this module on :
Porpoise
Orca
Rorqual

The difference between the three booster must be role bonus they give to the fleet and cargo space. no more restriction.

You have the ratio versus Risk, If you would like make more money use rorqual and exhumer, you would like to go mining in te dangerous zone. Pporpoise and expedition frigate.

Also only one ore hold and it’s possible to open this hold by the fleet member (like Fleet Hangar).

Also please consider to have a good tank for barge and exhumer. This ship is not be here to be ganked in highsec or everywhere.

Also rorqual modification :slight_smile:
This ship can use all isotopes ( Helium, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Nitrogen)

4 Likes

So what? Nobody cares about this log off-timer. I think suspect timer would be best, so that angry miners can easily attack the bait.

7 Likes

I’m not an industry type outside of the real basic stuff, but this just seems like a huge mess.

Disappointing update overall, it feels like CCP took the sledgehammer approach instead of even trying to find any finer balance.

I understand that being able to print out capitals in highly guarded, fully self-sustainable nullsec pockets with infinitely scalable and near-invulnerable capital mining ships is not sustainable either. I may be a good-hearted fool, but honestly I would accept these changes and patiently wait for the promised dynamic ore distribution (sometime in 2022…) if CCP met us in the middle by nerfing the Rorqual, but dropping the compression cycle timers and resource loss upon compression and restricted mining waste to a flat 33% for all types of mining modules (you could still keep the high-waste variants of the mining crystals, just don’t introduce a mechanic that would give alliances a legit reason to ostracize newbro miners.

Longer reasoning below:

  1. Rorqual proliferation was arguably what caused the devaluation of capitals and high-end ships (pre-scarcity times) but instead of trying to balance things, CCP straight out relegates the ship into compression/boosting duty. No middle-ground whatsoever.

  2. The uneven activity numbers in lowsec vs nullsec (due to the safety offered by massive blue donuts and their capital umbrellas) meant that post ore redistribution, nullsec ores became devalued while lowsec ores (and gas and PI ofc.) became the bottleneck to production. Mercoxit was further bottlenecked slightly later, since no-one had any reason to clear out the devalued sov null rocks.

But instead of trying to balance things out with timed respawns of specific asteroid types, dynamic ore distribution (however that would really work) or giving alliances finer control of what types of resources their sov systems spawn, they introduce a completely novel mechanic to allow miners to effectively dump the unwanted resources at a faster rate to force an entire asteroid cluster to respawn just to bring in more of actually worthwhile rocks.

Nevermind that this does not solve the bottleneck of lowsec ore types since miners just have to put in more work hours to keep the mercoxit flowing and no-one bothers to mine in lowsec (arguably that isn’t even feasible to those who want to run industry in deep null.) It also introduces a good reason to ostracize anyone who isn’t skilled into t2 mining crystals… The compression losses and compression cycles are just icing on the cake, doubling the amount of resources on field, and then making us waste said resources by design.

1 Like

Hey CCP folks, it’s me again. Got a couple of questions I didn’t think of the first time around:

  • What is the compression loss rate in upwell structure reprocessing facilities going to be?
  • Will the Hoarder and Kryos be keeping their old holds as well, or will the new specialized holds completely replace the old ones?
  • I’m assuming the old mining crystal blueprints are going to be converted into the new ones. How is that going to work out? Will I end up with redundant Type A crystal BPOs, or will some of them be converted into Type B or Type C?
  • Will the Endurance be gaining a 2nd turret hard point? I don’t see any mention of hardpoints of any kind on the spreadsheet, but I feel like adding a 2nd hardpoint to the Endurance would be consistent with the other changes I’m seeing.
    Hope to hear back from y’all soon.

My thoughts as well!

RIP to venture-flying newbros. now you can’t mine gas.

great content.

2 Likes

So how exactly is the loss in compression working?
A. You compress 100 veldspar and end up with 90 compressed veldspar?
B. You compress 100 veldspar like today and end up with 1 compressed veldspar. (But compressed veld when refined only returns 90% of the minerals that uncompressed veld would have.)

Option A doesn’t seem to work with ice though (compress 1 block of ice and end up with 1 compressed block?)

Option B also doesn’t seem to work, because in space compression is supposed to be more efficient?

I can’t get onto the test server, so can’t check it myself

I think get why you have set the compression modules to only pull from the main hold, not the fleet hangar or ore hold. You want to make the pilot flying the command ship be the one compressing, and with current Rorqual mechanic, the barge pilot can put ore in the fleet hangar, compress it, and remove it back to his ore hold without any action from the command ship pilot. You don’t need to restrict the module this way, just don’t have a right click compress option. It’s terrible spaceship design to have a module that only works on ore not piped to the ore bay. that’s like a module that needs fuel not piped to the fuel bay.

1 Like

Newbros should not mine if their primary interest is making isk asap.

They have to learn the game.

Great to see some changes to industry after what seems like forever. Keep up the good work CCP :slight_smile:

Many times I have seen in your promo videos you claim “Mining and Industry are the backbone of Eve”.
This whole thing, from “scarcity” until now is breaking that “backbone”.
Truth, think about it. If the mining is the beginning of the chain, what would happen if you made similar changes to the end of the chain ?
The following are just points and questions from this upcoming changes you are planing.

In your /news/view/ article you state :
"It is becoming less feasible to solo mine in them since the drone mining yield for both the Orca and Rorqual is being reduced. " Don’t you mean REMOVED from Porpoise, Orca, and Rorqual ? because that’s what you did.
This now makes it so that no ORE ships have any drone mining yield bonuses.

Doubling the ore,gas,ice in belts and anomalies and introducing your new “waste” mechanic means only those with T2 miners/strips that use T2 crystals or the very expensive and hard to find ORE versions will see any net increase in the ore,gas,ice. ALL others will only see less available amounts in the ore,gas,ice fields. So basically this is an overall NERF.

Now you take away slots that are used for tank on the Procurer and Skiff and give only the Exhumers +5% to resists which don’t even equal the benefits of the modules they had in the slots you took away without giving the Barges anything meaningful.

Type C crystals, if used correctly can empty resource fields without getting anything in the hold.
Brilliant way of not getting anything to the markets. Just fantastic. How will you build anything to achieve the “more destruction” you crave ?

Yes, I do like the idea of compressing in the fields. However, that is more than offset with 'waste", NOT good. Definitely not prosperity.

I like the refunding of SP for the removed skills and the ISK spent on the respective skill books.

What about the BPOs for the crystals ? Are they going to be changed to the new (respective tier) crystal BPOs with the same ME and TE as the old crystal BPOs had ? If not, how are they being reimbursed, or will that be yet another loss ?

Are there any plans on bringing back Medium size mining drones ? You could have the BPCs drop from the NPC Ore Haulers like the Large size mining drone BPCs do. Being that the Rorqual is the only ship that can use the Large size it makes sense that the other Industrial Command Ships would get the Mediums.

All said and done, it looks like this grand reworking of the resource supply chain has only made mining ships squishier and mining more difficult and time intensive to get the same mineral amount per unit of time. With the help of the new type C crystals this will have a trickle down effect causing all the items made from minerals to be fewer in number and higher in price. This WILL cause the new players to quit in greater numbers and faster than ever before, and from what i have heard, many of your subscribers will unsub and go elsewhere, further lowering your player base.

You wanted more destruction, remember ? Well this will do it, except it will be the game that gets destroyed. So much for keeping it alive. RIP
Why are you trying to play this off as something positive ? when what you are actually doing will result in CCP going out of business due to lack of player base. Can’t make more to blow up if you can’t get the minerals to make things in quantity to do so in the first place.

I give you an E for effort.

8 Likes

As mentioned before, changing mining around (for the worse) is not “firmly ending scarcity.”

From my perspective:

  • Ratting is pity money.
  • Mining is being run to the ground.
  • Production has become extremely boring and complicated.
  • PI is boring, mindless clicking.
  • Making decent isk in abyssals requires 5 bil Gilas and taking huge risks.
  • Never tried exploration, but my friends are telling me it’s not fun either.

I want to PvP, in capitals, in battleships… 6 bil for a carrier/dread, 300 mil for a BS hull. That’s not fun when you have to go through boring grinding to make isk. Nobody flies capitals anymore, too.
And no, buying PLEX, even if you can afford it, is not fun either. Part of the gameplay in Eve is to have engaging ways to make money.

My friends and I are utterly disappointed with the continuous delivery of bad patches from CCP, and playing the game is not fun anymore.

Since CCP has obviously been ignoring the CSM and the feedback from the community, I am letting my wallet speak—I have just unsubbed my alt. I was training the character for a carrier and supercarrier. It’s now pointless–people don’t fly capitals anymore, and supers are crazy expensive…

I will unsubscribe my main, too, if CCP continues running the game to the ground. It’s just not fun and engaging anymore.

11 Likes

my 2 Rorq has been collecting dust for almost 3 years…seems that is gonna continue to until Eve is finally dead

4 Likes

The Ultimate Salt Mining Pro’s: CCP :laughing:
Loving all the salt from the vets :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

3 Likes

The salt is not without its charm, but I’m not loving my HS friends seriously considering leaving the game because it is about to become a job. We don’t want to join a null group. We don’t want to be LS pirates. We mine our moons, do some reactions, and build simple spaceships. We do this as a group of friends, and it has been sustainable for a few years now through some of the hardest indy changes in the modern game. When friends aren’t here, then what’s the point?

(We need our minerals left in moon ore. The rest of the patch we’ll figure out).

4 Likes

You’re heading the wrong direction. Currently, I can prevent giving griefers a pvp timer. When Type C crystals give an immediate pvp timer, we’ll see an increase of people who are playing eve online since five days being podded while trying to mine. I don’t think a lot of newbs will appreciate a game like that. To me, the patch reads like “more hate on hisec.” If you don’t want people to mine, you can just remove mining from the game.

Also, please consider not taking away any meaning from the Endurance. If it’s intended role is about mining, the yield of this T2 ship must land at least somewhere close to that of T1 Barges. I wonder why you introduced the clear tier structure of Venture - Barges - Exhumers in the first place after tiericiding for a decade. Now the expedition frigates are sorted into a bad spot in this tier structure and, considering it requires an additional skill, out of use. Why skill up Expedition Frigates when you can just dive straight into barges instead?

On the same account, if you intend another role as “cloaky ore/ice/gas hauler” for the prospect, consider giving it another high slot. And some way to get rid of belt rats. Or a role bonus that allows using large smartbombs.

So, please,

  • consider removing mining waste
  • seriously consider removing Type C crystals altogether
  • Give back a reason to exist to the Endurance
  • Give the Prospect another reason to exist than “cloaky specialized ore/ice/gas hauler”

Also, please claryfy:

  • What is the intended role of the Endurance?
  • What is the intended role of the Prospect?
  • What is the intended role of the Venture?
  • How do you envision getting a newb into mining without being hated by experienced miners, being podded by gankers giving themselves an instant Type C pvp timer and finding only empty belts that have been disintegrated by those gankers while killing other newbs?
1 Like

Stick to your guns CCP!

Dont give into to the krabs fake tears!

#2021miningpatchftw

6 Likes

Just throwing my thoughts out there.

These changes to industry and mining over the past 2 years, including this one, have sucked ALL of the fun out of them. To be fair, I am onboard with making the rorqual and orca excel at support, not be top-notch miners. The dedicated mining ships SHOULD be better. I get what was trying to be accomplished with the scarcity and all that. But then to come back and ruin industry by making it extremely complex is just insanely dumb. What you have done is make everyone need multiple alts to mine ore, multiple alts to mine gas, multiple alts to do PI, etc.

The waste mechanic is just ridiculous and unnecessary for mining AND for compression. Just screwing over noob miners big time, as has been mentioned by multiple people. What trained miner will want a noob miner in the fleet ruining precious resources? None. None at all.

I have just started trying to return to the game after not really playing for about 18 months, and it’s WAY more of a job, WAY more complex for no reason and frankly I’m having a very hard time convincing myself to keep trying to play. You’ve ruined the fun for solo builders for anything other than T1 ships smaller than battleships.

This game used to have everything I could want from a game. Now they just complicate the hell out of everything just so they can say they made changes. It’s frustrating and just feels lazy. Used to have some amazing expansions and really have a clue about what the playerbase wanted. CCP is so out of touch that it is honestly hard to believe anybody there even plays the game or cares. Not sure if that’s CCP or Pearl Abyss or both, but this is not the same, and that’s extremely sad.

2 Likes

You could have fixed the problem by removing skill injectors. No more 3 month old characters in Rorquals, paid for in cash, hoovering up the belts. Sorted.

Oh, that would affect the revenue stream? Far better then to screw up 10k players’ lives with overly complex, unnecessary changes…

5 Likes