From Extraction to Production

[D_Kins_Cider]

@littlertree

u are implaying we have to pay money to ccp for getting omega

You may not pay money directly to CCP, but CCP makes real world money for every single omega account in the game. No ifs. No buts. No maybes.

I’ll say it again, in capitals, just in case you missed it the first time.

CCP MAKES REAL WORLD MONEY FROM EVERY SINGLE OMEGA ACCOUNT.

It may not come from you, but someone pays for that PLEX that you PLEX your account with if you’re not directly paying for a subscription (or buying plex and using that to pay). They also make money from the skill extractors (because you can not make them in game, you can only buy them from the Eve Online Store and then trade them for ISK in game).

[Kanashio_Koroshi]

I only need one Omega in a mining fleet now. The waste and compression mechanics are extremely useful for fleets consisting of an Orca and a great big pile of Vexors’n’Venturs. This update is excellent for F2P and Alpha mining, particularly if Semantec Ghost and a hardware KVM are utilized effectively.

[D_Kins_Cider]

@MinorFreak

[b] icicle quantity was never boosted by 200% previously (unless you want to really spin doctor things)

Yeah, this one’s an interesting claim.

I’d love for someone with more time than me to go through the patches from the last few months (where they basically decimated ice spawns, then put some of them back, but had them spawning on a slower timer) and see if they really actually have doubled anything…

[D_Kins_Cider]

@MalcomReynolds_Serenity

or trash an opponents moon

I don’t get this as a motivator.

If I really want to trash someone’s moon, I mine it clean - they don’t get the moon goo, but I do. Double win to me.

Having a module that just trashes things is just pure negatively. It’s not a useful game mechanic (frankly. the whole “waste” mechanic is WAY overcomplicated and pointless. It’s a very hard way to achieve a simple goal.

[Kanashio_Koroshi]

This. Right here. I’ve got to wonder why CCP is making Alpha mining fleets quite this OP. A porp and a team of ventures are now quite a lot more effective than a pair of Orcas. Net loss for CCP

[aldarrin]

Short version: we’re beyond "burn Jita,’ it’s time to strike. Mine if you want, but sit on your takes. When the rest of the game can’t afford ships because they can’t be built they’ll get the problem.

I’m pretty sure CCP is hell bent on wrecking the mining profession unless you have 10+ accounts. That’s the way it was when I first started in '06: you couldn’t make decent isk mining unless you had 10 accounts. The miners then either were ok being poor or had a bunch of accounts and broadcasted to make decent isk.

I’ve tried mining over the years. But I could never accumulate wealth as quickly as doing anything else (first missions, then incursions, now abyss). It never made sense for low account players. Until the Rorq turbo buff. But that happened after I left the game.

When I was first playing, the Rorq was a poor man’s JF (you could fit whatever you want in the haulers you carried). Then that was taken away. Fine, I can provide boosts to the system from a POS. That was taken away.

Blah, blah. Here’s what I’m thinking: the Orca should be able to mine about the same as a an Orca boosted Hulk. The Rorq should be able to mine about 1.5x a Rorqual boosted Hulk. The waste nonsense should apply to classes the same between mining lasers, strip miners, and drones. Otherwise, it’s up to us to figure out how to tip the boost providers. This way a boosting boat gets to profit for the risk the added to the field. If CCP doesn’t do this, I propose we strike.

Burning Jita is cool, but folks that only mission run, BLOPs, or build ships don’t get how bad this patch is for the folks that make everything in Eve possible. If you want to mine, mine. Just don’t sell your mined assets. If you run low on isk, then do things that always made good ISK: run mission, go to the abyss, do incursions, or even rat (this has also been nerfed to the ground and CCP should be ashamed). Just don’t buy PLEX. If that doesn’t work, the quit the game. I have a year on my three accounts, but I already unsubbed all three. A game company that isn’t committed to providing me enjoyment doesn’t deserve my money, nor does it deserver yours. If they course correct I’ll happily return to funding this game. If not, well I don’t believe in sunk cost fallacy and neither should you; there are other games.

[D_Kins_Cider]

@DragoFire

remember a new player will mine a rock and get as much ore out of it as they did before this update.

now if you have better skills and modules, you’ll get the same ore as before and bonus ore from the rock due to less waste dust production.

So leave the rocks alone, get rid of the stupid wastage crap, and scale bonuses higher for the higher level skills. Simpler, reduces SO much grief and complexity…

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Shuckstar

@CCP_Rattati @CCP_Dopamine Do you guys even play EvE?? Never seen Dev’s so out of touch with there player base before.

Oh, I have. Dark Age of Camelot, where the Epic Armor for some classes (the Friar if memory serves) gave bonuses that the class couldn’t use - the devs denied it, so players went out, logged the living snot out of things, and proved to Mythic that the devs were wrong. Mythic EVENTUALLY changed it - after insulting the playerbase and basically calling them stupid for months.

And then EA (who’d already killed UO) bought Mythic and it only got WORSE.

Where are both of those games now? Footnotes in history…

[D_Kins_Cider]

@CPuiu

i don’t get why some people are so upset.

Please try to read what people are saying. Their points are VERY well laid out.

I’m yet to see anyone actually explain how these changes have a positive impact on the game (beyond some easily argued spin).

[DragoFire]

this system that is being tested allows CCP to scale resources on the fly without have to do big changes once this in place, all they would need to do from patch onwards is change percentages.

as all resources will have a set base amount from then on, changes to wastage and compression efficiency percentages which would only require a single server tick to apply and not a server down.

this is a good thing long term, sad to see people not looking long term/big picture

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Jah_Ruels

Those changes are awful. Good thing I don’t care for mining or manufacturing.

The concern for me is that I see Mining and Industry as a means to an end.

If they kill mining, there’s no resources for industry to process. If there’s no resources for industry to process, you’ll have no ships, no modules and no ammunition.

Awesome game it’ll become. Corvette spinning spreadsheets in space!

[DragoFire]

their not killing mining, you’ll mine the same amounts as before, but if you use better meta modules and have higher skills you’ll gain the rewards of less waste dust and more resources from the same source.

low skills and meta = 1-to-1 (resource-to-waste dust) = what you currently mine
high skills and meta = 17-to-1 (rough concept) = what you currently mine and bonus from no waste

there’s a lot of scaremongering going on over all this

[Sphincta]

oh but wait you still need to compress it, and now there is compression waste. so the carrot givith and the stick taketh away.

[Sphincta]

who is going to buy faction strip miners except for the rich and very safe behind lines. turns a hulk into something like a 3 billion isk ship based on current prices. less miners means prices will go up…

[DragoFire]

compression is a new feature

structures can still compress, but with a 10% resource cost
Industry command ships can with skills do it better, this is new for the orca and propoise, rorq can do it even more better than stations and you can compress gas, ice and ore on the grid with these changes

the ships can get to 98% efficient, thats 2% waste compared to stations 10%

[DragoFire]

the whole mining meta will change with these changes and for the better from what some say.

the industry command ships will be able to improve mining with bursts and supply better support and defence than before, and the other changes appear to be good, though there are a few questionable ship changes

[Sphincta]

Perhaps you are right, however i don’t feel the same way. I feel as though we were sold a Ferrari for 2 years, and been given a 10 year old beat up VW combi. i think this is why most are rather angry and disappointed.

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Alistair_Kion

Separately, the waste mechanic means AT WORST the total amount of material available in an asteroid will remain the same (basic t1 modules, drones, etc). If you use t2 lasers with the appropriate crystals, you can get up to 50% more total ore out of a full asteroid, and with faction lasers, up to 100% more total ore.

The waste mechanic is a terrible way to achieve this. It’s complex and confusing - and that’s just for the developers.

[DragoFire]

that only will happen if you’re willing to risk the isk to get all the resources, the next lvl down only wastes 35% of the full amount of the resources which leaves you with 165% of what you currently get.

this is the thing people aren’t understanding.

all resources gain 100% (except mex which gets 30%) thats 2x the current amount of resources, so at 100% waste you’ll still get what you currently mine, but with better skills and meta fits you can get higher than you currently get.

[D_Kins_Cider]

@Anthony_Andedare

Without a panic button. the orca is much to squishy to use this module anywhere other than highsec.

An Orca that can’t move (or cloak) in highsec is a dead Orca. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.