Ah no i understand perfectly, I agree with that your math is almost accurate ( the last Pull is likely wasted thou) but then there is compression, and the amount of time required (at risk) to do that.
Then there will be Dynamic Distribution, so if previous patches are any example. That 165% will turn into 35% real fkn quick. and they will come back and say oh but we ‘doubled’ the ore last patch.
Cant you see whats coming.
I cant understand why people are so willing to accept what served up.
Its a Good short term strategy for the Owners… its not doing much of anything for the player base .
For social reasons my High Sec Moon Goo Mining Crew needs minerals to remain in High Sec moons. “Social play” = “Paid subscriptions”. Please… 
The Orca compression is just awful.
It’s worse than awful.
5 minutes for Core mode? Seriously?
Who thought up these cringeworthy mechanics? Do you even test your own theories?
I hope for your sake that you take the criticism seriously and revamp the worst before you release this garbage.
Your volume of ore is unnecessary, the speed of its extraction necessary.
I think adding waste like this makes no sense to me when you have it in refining and in compression, at a conceptual level I think waste from compression makes no real sense, but in terms of moving it you have a choice between un-compressed and compressed and it costs a bit to do so.
I think reducing the tank of the Skiff and Proc would have been fine apart from the fact that they added the need for faction mining lasers with this waste approach, and in doing so changed the dynamics of hisec ganking, so if more people fit them to reduce waste gankers will develop more accounts from that loot and changing the balance towards the gankers to an unacceptable degree.
I agree about the Orca, my issue with that ship has been watching people AFK mine ice with it, and seeing an Orca AFK on each chunk of ice by certain multi-boxers was really sickening. I think an intermediate bay for this with a low capacity would have done the trick, but CCP… I liked it as it was.
The Rorqual, I always thought the initial yield was way too high, however I thought that the initial defensive ability was fine. Though I would have disabled the point under PANIC. But I have no intention of ever sitting in one because it is too vulnerable for me.
Removing gas from Ventures is just bad, and I have no idea what their thinking is in terms of the expedition frigates which were my preferred option to mine in nullsec, ninja mining by the way.
Good detailed reply and not a whine post.
Still my point was that the only thing that really bothered me was the waste, I could live with the rest, it was not that I was being dismissive of others issues with all of this. o7
aside from Rorqual , Orca and Porpoise have never been the best mining ship in the game lol
Even for solo mining , the only advantage that the Orca had was a nice tank and the huge amount of cargo space. Solo mining with a skiff was superior but the issue was less cargo had to jetcan or make multiple trips.
There’s no issue there , it was a way for Miner to have a “end goal” have you seen the PRICE on those command ship ? I’m sorry buddy but no one is going to invests BILLIONS to sit on a belt just to give mining boost to a fleet, when they can do the same on a Porpoise that cost 25 times less than an Orca and 125 times less than a Rorqual.
They have to get some DECENT mining going. so far on Sisi for the Orca it seems to be a 25% nerf (Live it’s 50% industrial skill mining bonus + 100% ROLE mining bonus) while on Sisi those 2 are removed and replaced with a +100% mining bonus for the T1 compact industrial core and a +125% for the T2 variant.
Which is somewhat “OKAY” i mean we get compression woohoo, the issue is with the bigger volume of ores in the asteroids means they have gotten really huge in size , warping at 0km from a bookmark to one of them in an Orca means you get bumped 80km away… not nice. so you get to be in the middle of a belt with roids in the 25km-100km away. the travel time alone for a T2 drone with a speed of 962m/s to reach a roid at 70km would be 4 minutes , the cycle for the Industrial Core is 5 minutes… yep a whole Cycle just wasted on travel time of the Drone… they need to seriously increase the mining drone speed to compensate for that … 2km/s MINIMUM
So…when does this patch drop? Tomorrow?
Not always, but for several years now, to eliminate gun mining. When reprocessing was 100% efficient, it was an efficient way to mine, by reprocessing loot from PVE (I think it used to be better than mining itself, for getting minerals in the days when the Rorqual didn’t mine at all).
Used to be a common practice to manufacture simple items that could be packaged and shipped in large quantities easily, and then reprocess to get 100% of the input minerals back again.
So loss in reprocessing was added, to eliminate that unintended use.
in december , no date , but it’s december , this is a preview of what’s going to come in december
so why train for orca or rorqual waste all those training time for a useless big shiny toy …i hate this idea and patch comming now pointless having so many rorqual accounts or even training to it just have to stop plexing looks like it ccp wants to destroy the game.
I‘m wondering why people keep saying it‘s a 30% nerf for the rorq when on SiSi the nerv is actually (minus) 68%
I dont have a Rorqual right now, but I found this from a quick google search.
What is the function of the rorqual?
These furrows allow the mouth to expand immensely when feeding, “permitting them to engorge great mouthfuls of food and water in a single gulp”. These “pleated throat grooves” distinguish balaenopterids from other whales.
So what will be the purpose of future mining characters? If they cant engorge themselves with great holds of ore and gas?
They starve and they DIE,
Exhumers cannot pick up the slack because you refuse to give them proper roles and fitting options! and totally bogus level bonuses. -5% sig radius per level of exhumer, for a Hulk, insulting to say the least.
CCP’s already stated they will be looking at this yesterday. The whole compression mechanics have been adjust two times today already. And the update isn’t due for at least 4 or more weeks.
Hmm OK thx. But then I don’t see how the 79% ice compression efficiency works? Wouldn’t you have to load 100 blocks and get 79 compressed ice blocks back?
They aren’t going to be useless, it’s going to be a great command burst and resource processing ships
The bonus they get for supporting is good and their compression modules can be more efficient than stations.
Basically Orca and Rorqual become true industry command ships and no longer over power solo mining ships everyone has complained about for years.
Yes this will possibly effect afk miners, but that was something that always been requested.
There are a number of new metas that some mining groups have already thought about with these changes and love the possibilities. The Porpoise will become more important as a good supporting ship for the two larger ships and for more mobile mining fleets.
i have a rather poor view of these changes. i am not a rorquel pilot, but i saw posted that rorquels are responsible for a vary large part of the ore that is used in game for building stuff. less rorquel’s = more expensive stuff.
the change to orca just plain sucks. i’d hate to sit in a asteriod belt just hitting the booster buttons and compressing for everyone, which is a real chore. the ore should come from the ore hangers. not the main hanger.
the nerfs / buffs to the other mining ships dont really bother me cept for the procurer , which was a wonderful ship is now ruined. there is little difference between the ships now. gone is the trade-off of large ore holds and being slow and squishy . vs small holds and being tanky.
i feel most bad for the new players. you have screwed them over. the yield / waste isnt a big deal unless your fleet / corp is min / max the asteriod belts. the new player wont notice. what really screws them over is the removal of the gas harvesters from the venture. ninja gas huffing is one of the first things a new player exploring a wormhole will do. and is something that is easy to learn.
You don’t consider being stuck in space unable to move or cloak, with no PANIC module to protect you, to be crippled compared to now (where if you’re in a quiet system you immediately cloak if local spikes, or can MWD warp to safety before they can land)?
Even if they reduce the cycle time on it to 1 minute, that’s absolutely the difference between life and death in highsec with an Orca when a ganking party arrives in system.
Porpoise can do the command burst and can compress aswell , granted in lesser quantity than orca or rorq. I feel sorry for the orca or rorq pilot WITHOUT AN ALT ACCOUNT that is just going to sit there in a belt or at a moon mining op looking pretty.
Also i don’t think it’s fair for neither of them to be categarized in the same group. Rorq for one is null sec , Orca is High Sec and lower but mostly High Sec (cause of the tank and speed and the price) , Porpoise is anywhere you want it to be baby.
Nothing wrong with “afk” mining , you cannot 100% be afk mining IE going in a belt and going to work , come back and oh look i mined for 60 billions today Noice. That is botting if it’s the case , you Actually do have to be present at your PC to switch asteroids, I mostly watch a stream while mining , on Live mining in an Orca with T2 drones and all the jazz it takes me about 3 to 4 hours to fill up my cargo… Hence why you might think it’s “afk mining” There’s no ■■■■■■■ way i’m going to sit on a belt for 3 to 4 hours without something to entertain me somewhere else.
Yes so you loose 21%, this is 11% worse than a structure, so the only time you’d be using that would if you’re no where near a structure (j-space) or don’t have a better skilled clone or better meta fit.
With max skills you have 2% loose with T2 modules.
Remember these are mobile compression modules and being mobile means you can compress in area you couldn’t before and thus even with the worse compression ratios (trig ore and mex 16 units per 1) you’d be able to increase the amount you’d be able to mine before having to get it shipped out or return home.
Something to think about, minor loss to compression vs increased amounts hauled on one run.