You can do the same thing in highsec as well and a lot of players do exactly that every day. I bet with you a large sum of ISK that the probability of you getting killed while doing so in Highsec is A LOT lower than in whatever nullsec system.
The difference becomes even more ridiculous if you use a Skiff, which makes it virtually impossible to get suicide ganked in highsec, while it improves your chances of survival in null only miniscule.
So all you have to do in highsec to get virtually invulnerable even while AFK mining is to chose the right ship… And now you want to tell us that this is too much to ask already and that something has to be done to make it less difficult still?
You do realize your entire argument hinges on the fact of Hisec flooding the market with wealth or the fact people will get tired of mining and quit.
I guess it is up to CCP to decide what makes people quit.
But saying adding 1000s of miners to hisec is going to change the minerals market after the Rorqual changes isn’t really even likely.
I don’t know what kind of hisec player would find plexing his account with mining “the thing too do” regardless of how safe it is. But I do think its in CCPs best interest too let them try all they like. The answer is really to make the more blinged out people like the ones using all mining implants too be more readily identifiable.
People have worked to make sov null safe, they have created intel channels, they have response fleets. That’s a lot of work to put those safety nets in place. Whatever you do in game, security is part of the job but some people tend to ignore it because it’s hisec. Laziness kills.
Nullsec is more risky so they have better resources available. Simple balancing of risk/reward.
Obviously people can mitigate that risk and a lot of nullsec players do that successfully. But it is incredibly easier to mitigate that risk in Highsec where the only thing you have to do is pick the right ship to be virtually indestructible even when paying zero attention to the game for any amount of time.
And like Remiel already pointed out you don’t care about neutrals in highsec, you don’t care if there are 50 unknown players in local. While I find the constant whining about cloacky campers equally weak than the constant demands for resource buffs and more safety from highsec carebears, it does show quite clearly what happens if we would put one of those highsec carebears who cry about null being more save into one of those “ridiculously secure” nullsec systems and put a single other player into local => more tears and demand for making the games easier for themselves.
What, no. My argument hinges on the fact mining (or ratting) for no purpose is terrible gameplay. The fact that highsec (and nullsec) is too safe and too lucrative contributes to the massive overproduction that is eroding the shared economy of the game, but my main point is that the core activity of this game is suppose to be competing and cooperating with other players, not grinding resources while watching Netflix.
Our friend there, and presumably the imaginary highsec miner/hauler he is white knighting for, both play the game in a pretty non-sustainable way. Only grinding resources for no reason in safety is not a long-term way to play Eve for most players who will bore in short order of the meaningless pursuit of a wallet ballance, especially if everyone decides to do this and massively oversupplies the market so that no one wants to buy your stuff. In a game so short on conflict drivers, you need content creators to make things happen and stoke demand for things, as well as make up some meaning for the players to do things like grind. People advocating for yet more safer space and less reasons to interact with other players are strangling the game, even if they have good intentions to help new players (note: most don’t and just want more safety so they can accumulate virtual assets easier and play the “think of the children” card in hopes of getting their game made easier, often at the expense of the new players who can’t compete with these veterans who suck up all the resources faster than them).
In an interesting feed-back loop, all this safe grinding while watching Netflix is flooding the game with resources making everything worthless, is undermining the whole point of the resource grind. Even if you just play the game to build stuff, your sense of satisfaction comes directly from the value of the things you produce, and as those become worth less and less, so to will your motivation to grind decrease. Already, highsec gathering has been devalued to the point you can’t reasonably PLEX an account there (aside from Incursions of course) which I think is the primary explanation for the dramatic exodus of highsec players from that sector of space or the game entirely. Unless a significant intervention is made, it is only a matter of time until the massive Rorqual and drone-ratting multibox fleets enabled by skill extractors/injectors make most PvE activities worthless, at least in terms of being able to get other players to give you things, including PLEX, for the fruits of your labours.
They are mostly useless basement dwellers who want to play an MMO, but with the interaction of a single player game, as otherwise there might be events that hurt their feelings. No suprise that many of them are in a single player corp (or with a couple of alts). They are determined to keep crying for their safe spaces until CCP caves in. It is especially with these types in mind that the CODE was written.
I get that someone might want to play in a vast sandbox like New Eden solo, or mostly solo, but I don’t get at all those that do so and then complain that people can interact with them while they are perfectly fine interacting with others on their terms - usually gathering, building and selling virtual items to other players. It’s pure hypocrisy for some player to demand a safe space in a competitive game while still retaining the ability to affect the other players. You are either in the virtual universe or not - we all play by the same rules.
Highsec is plenty safe and vast enough to lack almost all forms of competition. So safe and lacking things to fight over, that you can play the game largely on your terms and never have to directly compete with other players to the point of terminal boredom for many players and groups. But there is always the possibility someone will come along and pay the price to shoot you (and that chance increase dramatically the more value is in your ship, and the less precautions you take) and if you can’t handle that tiny risk and insist on making forum threads asking for game changes so you are absolutely safe, you really are playing the wrong game.
And yes, praise be to the Code for bringing player-driven content and some life to some of the dullest space in the game.
I said a reasonable person can’t grind for a PLEX in highsec anymore, not that you can’t make truckloads of ISK in highsec.
I rarely leave highsec as well, and make enough ISK to PLEX many accounts with some lazy station trading. And with SP farming, the profits are even greater and easier. I imagine serious industrialists make tons as well, more than even the average nullsec super ratter.
Missioning pays essentially the same as it ever did, and mining even less since the Rorqual buff, yet PLEX has doubled or quadrupled in recent times depending on your time frame. Once ‘playing for free’ was rendered out of the question my the increasing PLEX prices, there isn’t much left for the non-creative types in highsec to do. The rule set doesn’t encourage competition or starting a war, and there is only so much meaningless ISK one can try to accumulate before the purposelessness of it wears on you and they quit the game.
And if the economy seriously falters and industrialists and traders can’t make a living? Well that brings on end times I am afraid. Thankfully our shared economy seems pretty resilient, but some days I do wonder if the current levels of production and destruction are really sustainable or if we have already run off the cliff and are just waiting for gravity to catch up with us à la Wile E. Coyote.
But this is off-topic. The point is that players, at least some of them, have to be competing with each other, making content and exploding ships and motivating people to grind towards some greater goal. Letting new players languish in highsec until they get bored is not good for the long term health of the game, nor is drowning New Eden in yet more wealth and even more safety.
The point I was trying to make and apparently still stands by your post is, that hisec mining ships could get a large buff in there shield/armor/structure and it probably would have no effect on the market of minerals at this point.
We can argue if that is good for the game or not, but saying it will do anything to the market at this point with the rorqual changes is pretty much a no.
Who’s ‘they’? I have the feeling that you’re conflating your own wilful ignorance with ‘their’ ability to coherently express a point. Whether or not there’s an insult that comes with that point is irrelevant, the point is all that matters. I have provided many points to you, for example, none of them with insults, all of which you’ve ignored. The problem is, your ignorance of explanations for how the game works, and how you can counter aggressors in high sec, is not grounds on which you can stand with any intellectual honesty for the argument that high sec needs to be ‘safer’. At the end of the day, you don’t need to apply much in the way of risk mitigation to be perfectly safe in high sec. Your failure to think of how for yourself, and subsequent ignorance of the explanations given you to do so, is your failure and yours alone, not a problem with the game.
Maybe. It would have a significant impact on player interaction, but if you just want to talk economically it might. The decline in certain high end minerals is quite noticeable in the charts starting when moon-mining (and these minerals) game to highsec. If you effectively boosted the yield of lazy/multiboxing highsec miners by making the higher yield ships gank proof, it might have a noticible, if small effect on the market. There are still a lot of highsec miners out there.
But given I see no upside to boosting mineral production in any way, certainly not by just making it even harder for players to interact, I dont think there is any need to make mining ships tougher. There is already an essentially gank-proof miner or three on the table and it is much better for game play that there are safer and more riskier options for players to choose their risk level rather than everything just being safe.
If anything, all the mining ships (including the Rorqual) could use a nerf in some way to make them more worth hunting and make them better conflict drivers. Maybe that doesn’t have to be a nerf to their defensive stats, but it certainly isn’t the case that gathering minerals is too hard in the game right now.
There already is a nearly perfectly safe progression of ships available: Procurer -> Skiff -> Orca, but as usual the weak clamor for just one more buff.