Are you familiar with the concept of a Kinetic Impact Weapon?
Because that is what bumpers will turn ships into if bumping is replaced by something more realistic.
Take a Rifter for instance, 1067 tonnes bare hull, chuck on some plate and a MWD and you’ve got what is essentially a 1500+ tonne hypersonic missile with no warhead; it’s gonna make a mess if it hits anything.
As for flagging, nah it’ll be impossible to police @ CCPs end.
Please don’t expect people, who want such changes, to understand physics or logic. There’s plenty of evidence that these people lack proper education. You’re insulting them! They’re lower class, low income people. It’s not their fault they’re unwilling to learn and we shouldn’t rub it into their faces all the time.
/s
I read this thread as:
They hurt me with a candle.
Let’s nerf the candle to half brightness and hand out flamethrowers.
I love the idea of bump based aggression. This would be a golden opportunity for the highsec community to address the excesses of wealth that have overwhelmed the game.
But let’s not confuse things… if I can bump you and do damage… I will use that mechanic whether you concord me or not.
I’m imagining at artillery alpha-shot fit Stabber fitted with a battleship MWD.
I know for a fact that a 500MN stabber used to over 10k per second.
I’ll alpha with a good strong hit… and then it’s kamakaze time.
I think it’s beautiful. Imagine a fleet of them.
Beautiful…
Well you got a point , but why the bumped ship is tossed away like it has 0 tons? why the “collision avoidance” mechanic just make the bumper to stop or be bumped a small amount in other vector?
Cool even then the damage to a we’ll fitted orca or a freighter will be not catastrophic and the “kinectic weapon” will be dead. I don’t see a problem in that.
Momentum, and the conservation thereof, all that energy has to go somewhere, and the entity with the least momentum is the one that is deflected the most.
Mass*Velocity=Momentum
Also Newton’s Laws of Motion.
20 of them won’t be, the target will; and not a shot fired
Friends are the best tool in the Eve toolbox.
As someone else said, why not just turn off ship collision? Boom problem solved.
That still assumes that there is an actual problem that needs to be addressed. CCP doesn’t believe so, and they’re right. Bumping and/or freighter ganking is done by a really tiny amount of people affecting only a tiny amount of people.
The only ones, who believe that there is a problem, are the nutjobs who actually create problems by declaring them as problems, without ever bringing up any evidence that there is, indeed, a problem.
In case you, too, believe that bumping and/or freighter ganking are an actual problem, then maybe you are capable of somehow explaining how it actually is a problem negatively affecting the game in a manner that it needs to be addressed.
Additionally would I like an explanation about why, if it really was such a huge problem, they’re not even acknowledging it. Sure, there’s the argument that they’re doing that for everything, but for most of the things that are an actual problem there is evidence that it really is a problem.
In reality it’s just a tiny amount of haters, who hate PvPers, who keep making threads about ■■■■■■■■ to attract more haters, with the desired end result of gathering enough haters so they can scream loud enough until CCP addresses the problem despite being well aware that there is none.
Exactly like in real life politics.
See also: AFK cloaking and suicide ganking.
20kg lump of metal @ 1.3% of lightspeed.
Damn that’s like 3,900(ish) km/s; that’s gonna get hot.
This creates another problem.
Specifically, when trying to prevent another ship from warping, it will be impossible to hold them by bumping them.
There are several applications where this is desirable Outside the example listed here.
The negative impact to the game is that it looks and feels like an exploit, it doesn’t make physics sense, and it doesn’t make logic sense.
Physics - Two ships slam into each other, no damage is done and no shields are effected. An object that has 100x the mass is flung wildly like a ragdoll.
Logic - Concord is there to keep the peace. A ship slams into another ship for 2 hours straight throwing it off course repeatedly, but it’s not seen as a sign of aggression.
Feels like an exploit - Bumping is CONSTANTLY being asked in game “why is this legal?” be new players and couriers. The ability to detect aggression from bumping would be neigh impossible to code without opening a new exploit. Exploiting a weakness in the code is a just that, an exploit.
At the end of the day, it turns players off from the game. A newbro that is eager and excited for the game goes out on a adventure to happly mine and make his chunk of isk in his first invested ship. A ganker comes along and bumps the crap out of him till the rest of the crew shows up. When the new player is like wtf he used an exploit to keep me from getting away, it’s a pretty big turn off to see that using a cheesey coding exploit is a tactic.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how any of these benefit anything, but gankers.
You are using a cloaking ship, the cooldown timer is a balancing mechanic. You are exploiting a cheesy coding weakness to bypass a balancing mechanic.
If they are being rude, open fire. That’s what guns are for, aggressive acts against another player. if ganking isn’t your thing, delclare war. if they aren’t wardeccable, put them on ignore. The number of good people using bumping to annoy a rude player is likely fractional to those using a frigate to bump a 940,000,000 kg freighter.
Tether is there for a reason, to protect things hugged to a station. The balancing mechanic behind that is if they lock you the tether breaks. Using a frigate to bump a 2,400,000,000 kg Avatar off a station is once again cheesy looking.
Yes, an exploit is always useful. Rather than roaming with a fleet of gankers and attacking a target outright with tackle etc when it’s coming out of warp it’s simply bumped until ships are redirected with little to nothing defenders can do outside of fire first and get it trouble with concord.
This isn’t about noobs in ventures being held in place.
This is about rich senior players who want their wealth protected so they can haul their billions in impunity.
You seen any ventures stuck in a belt like this? I haven’t…
Everyone in Eve knows that no place you can haul with impunity. No one is asking for that. Ganking is a thing, and should be. I personally wish Concord wasn’t so binary in response.
New players in ventures don’t get bumped they just get straight ganked.
You know that I didn’t ask for your personal opinion, right? I asked for evidence. You also can not reasonably use the argument “physics” considering you said that “turning off ship collisions” would fix the problem. You’re seriously undermining yourself with that.
The only players it turns off from the game are the handful of people whining about it. That’s really not a loss, especially because they’re ignoring any and all necessary steps to actually convincingly explain and reason about it.
Just like you. No evidence. Just your “feelings” and “logic sense”, which you even contradict by declaring that turning off ship collision detection would solve the problem.
You did not, in any way or form, deliver what I asked for.
You also failed to explain why CCP is not addressing this “issue”. I gave you an explanation and I expect that you, as you apparently have an opinion, can explain this crucial part.
The issue isn’t the game.
It’s really you.
It’s the new-ish craze that people feel offended by things that don’t directly affect them for people who apparently don’t care about complaining about it. Most people who cry about bumpers aren’t actually getting bumped. There should be masses of screenshot and video evidence given by those affected… but no.
So … anyhow, to sum this up:
In a twist of logic you declare that it makes no sense “physics” wise, yet “disabling physics” would solve the “problem”.
You failed to actually respond to my post.
You failed to deliver any evidence and instead “argue” using your feelings.
You ignore that the amount of people doing it is miniscule.
You ignore that the amount of people actually affected is miniscule.
You failed to explain why CCP ignores this “huge” problem.
Sorry, but you’re just one more on the list of people who try to create the illusion of a problem, without having anything to back up the claim. You might use Logic to reason, but thoughts can appear logical even when there’s gaping holes in knowledge and understanding.
While I appreciate your need for personal attacks, you can chill on that front. I didn’t give you those things, because they are impossible to give. You know that as well as do I. There are no player visible statistics on how many times players get bump, nor if bumping was involved in a kill. However as you and other have noted it is a strategy that is involved in various way to prevent balancing mechanics without any consequence.
CCP has ignored the problem because it’s nearly impossible to code to prevent. Therefor they let it be even though they receive complaint after complaint. Evidence is the repeated times it comes up in forums and tickets being raised about it enough that they had to release it in an FAQ it an attempt to stop tickets flooding in about it
The thing is, you can block a bumper.
You just get between him and the target and approach.
Not that hard to defeat… the hauling community could use their billions to hire a bit of protection… make it part of the game.
If you brought your own bump macharial, you could neutralize this.
Also, a bump Mach would be a fine way to extract a freighter from the ball of catalysts… leaving them to hang out and wait for concord to complete their program. Also a mechanic you could use to defend yourself.
Working as a team is the express goal of many Eve mechanics.
Mo, you really should take a long and deep look into the main afk cloaky thread. Considering that you’re active on the forums, talking to lots of people, arguing with them, I’d like to give you some insights into some people’s minds and modi operandi.
That thread is filled with people who declare that there is a problem that needs to be fixed. They ignore all reasoning, they ignore all logic and they ignore the fact that there are nullsec entities who have no issue with it. I use they as “the collective of RMTers who attempt to argue against afk cloaking”, which can be found in that thread.
Their only arguments are feelings, and reasoning, unless they randomly find something that might resemble an actual argument, which they then use over and over again. It is often literally the same people who keep talking endlessly.
The only weapon these people have is talking. That’s literally how it works. It’s apparently something that whiners and princesses do, which allows them to band together in a really bizarre way. It’s also not unlike how SJWs and other fascists/totalitarians operate.
So they are having a problem with something, for some “reason”. That reason is pretty much always based on hurt feelings, or an hurt ego, or just outright mental illness. There was one guy saying that the afk cloaker literally prevented him from undocking and, after asking for clarification, indeed meant that sincerely.
They just keep talking about it, and they grab on every hook they can find to keep the topic going. They do that, because it helps them growing. It works, because more instinct driven nutjobs with low thresholds and low senses for self responsibility come, also talking mostly nonsense/ignoring evidence/not delivering evidence/etc.
In their world, often enough and thanks to politics, all it takes is enough people screaming loud enough to get things changed. There is no requirement for it to make sense, and there is no requirement for it to be a good thing. Talking to them is pointless, because they don’t care about what you’re having to say.
All they want from you is that you either agree or just keep talking.
I’m not saying that this guy there *points* is like this, but he shows clear signs in that direction.
Please avoid wasting your time too much with these people. It does not help you, us, or the community as a whole. All it does is helping them wasting your time, gathering more of these “people” and burning you out.
Also, kind of required in today’s age: The Master List of Logical Fallacies
“Think of the children” is on there too, of course.
These people are intolerant of us, portraying themselves as “good”. Some, like Dragos, behave better than others … but when the end result is the same the differences don’t matter. As you know, the end results always have been the same: nerfs to various forms of our content, because “reasons”.
I’m ending this now, finishing it appropriately with a few lines important to always remember in today’s age:
I can’t speak for @Ghost_O_Mo but I post in the hope of informing newbies that haven’t formed an opinion yet.
The militant anti-crowd can go duck themselves, they are beyond redemption for the most part.
I also post to point out the potential consequences of changes such as the OP, something @Jenn_aSide refers to as the backfire effect.