Btw … where is Jenn? I don’t remember when I’ve seen her the last time!
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Saw him about 2 or 3 weeks ago, he takes breaks occasionally; a lot of people seem to be doing that recently…
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stratches head over mind boggling rant So that happened…
Anyhoo, this is a game and a very old one at that. CCP has clearly realized that changes are needed to improve the game. Neutral logi has been a thing for a very long time and they finally fixed it. This falls into largely the same boat. However, unlike that issue this one is a coding nightmare prone to extensive abuse if done wrong.
@Ghost - Agreed you should use a blocking ship to prevent the bump, however using an exploit to stop and exploit is a bit counter intuitive. Not to mention the align speed on some of these ships getting bumped would be you just need to land a single bump within 45secs… hard to guard against. They are slow to align to make warping slow and give tackle a change to connect, that’s their balancing mechanic. Bumping being consequence free throws that balance way off… well… balance.
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Why bumping ship to ship is needed? Maybe its not needed at all.
The problem with fiddling with the code that deals with bumping is that, in all likelihood, it’s the same code that deals with the collision boxes on things like stations and asteroids.
It’s probably about as hard to fix as the POS code was, and they deleted that; Legacy code being a bitch.
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I could only imagine the rats nest of code that Eve resides on. That said asteroids and stations don’t move when bumped, so their is the ability to manipulate the collision. You also don’t bump into things like wrecks or loot nor ships as you undock, so the ability to turn collision off via a flag must be present.
The major problem is the ability to determine aggressive bumping vs accidental bumping. This could eaaaasily be exploited if done wrong and the variables are massive. The question in the end is what GOOD comes of keeping collision turned on between ships? What benefit outside of the ability to bypass balancing mechanics is there?
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Yeah some of the code dates back to beta.
You’re right about asteroids and stations not moving when bumped, both are probably coded as non movable objects with stations having fixed coordinates in space hardcoded into the game; you can however get a hell of a bounce off of them.
Wrecks & loot similarly, the code for those quite possibly says that they have no collision box.
On the undock you have a 30 second invulnerability timer in which you can’t be bumped, shot etc; the timer ends either when you warp move target etc, or it times out, whichever comes first. Ctrl space will stop your ship and retain the timer, allowing you to redock as the docking timer expires, while still untouchable (this last bit may have changed, others like Solstice or Mo will be able to confirm either way)
Sorting aggressive bumping from accidental would be nigh on impossible, and if bumping ever incurs flags it will be exploited by players, G(rr)oons have already said that such a change would result in them building a wall of burning freighters on the Jita 4-4 undock; without any doughnuts being dropped by Concord.
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I’m pretty sure they recieve complaints, and we get multiple forum threads about ganking, too. And cloaky camping. And a myriad of accepted aspects of the game.
Just because people complain about something, doesnt mean anything, and isnt evidence for anything. People will complain about things they feel are unfair all the time, even when it’s not, because they are selfish and jealous only care about their own experience.
Bumping isnt an exploit.
Presumably the ship that is blocking the bumping ship, is also the one that is providing webs, therefore this guarantees an align time of 10 seconds or less.
If you use your head, it’s not hard to avoid or prevent bumps.
Indeed, seeing a Freighter enter warp backwards or dorifto style because someone is on the ball, is a sure sign of a proper job.
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In case you have not seen this.
There was a solution proposed 3 years ago.
At 51:42
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Continuing the discussion from Getting bumped in a freight highsec should make the bumper flagged:
I envision flying around with that Stabber, pigeon diving unsuspecting bling fitted ships sitting on gates, that would ecstatic.
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We need to get this idea in front of the CSM…
Kind of brings a tear to the eye.
Even the losers in these engagements would love the eloquence of it.
Bumping is consequence free because you choose to make it so.
You can use your wealth to declare war.
You can hire someone to gank the macharial.
You can get someone to defend you.
Or you can go blast someone out of existence personally if you like to.
You can do lots of things to other players. You are just arguing that CCP should dispense justice so you don’t have to be bothered with it.
I wish I had an easy way to help you see the absolute blast you would have delivering justice yourself.
Best part of the game. I’d be happy to help you learn some of that if you want.
Once upon a time, I trained some pretty good pilots.
I’m not that great myself… but I teach pretty well. If you want to learn… contact me.
And yeah, if you don’t want to avoid the problem but instead, punish someone… that’s the spirit.
You’re a pvp’er who just needs a little push.
You say exploit… I say logical, long standing, and obvious mechanic,
Blocking a bumper with a bumper seems pretty simple to me…
If that’s too ninja, why not put a scram and a couple webs on a cheap ship and have it tackle the Mach.
Any ship will do. And yes, Concord will frown at you… with lasers.
Concord response works the same for you as it does for them. The scram will turn.off the MWD… parking them.
Easy cheap insurance, no skill required.
But you will have to be willing to take an action to defend yourself…
That’s really the issue for your opposition here. You have dozens of options available to counter this issue… but you aren’t taking those or trying anything.
You just want risk gone so you can win without overcoming any obstacles.
That’s really frustrating to those of us who are here because we want to play the toughest game we can find.
Claiming that people who want counters without alts aren’t willing to defend themselves is silly.
Alt play is bad. And I include the gankers side in this as well, needing 10 Catalyst alts also isn’t great.
The current ganking and bumping gameplay is poor. It’s not a contest of skills, it’s a contest of alt preparation and who has multiboxing setups.
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For what it’s worth, I’m one of the purists who never used alts.
Ive never advocated the use of alts.
Teamwork and group play, however, I have routinely recommended for about a decade.
If you want me to come protect your freighter, I can show you how it’s done.
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I already know how. It’s still terrible gameplay. And does basically require alts because real people aren’t going to spend all that time just running an escort.
There are ways the gameplay could be vastly improved, bumping as a long term tactic vastly decreased while still leaving it as an emergency option, and the use of alts on both sides decreased.
Note… I’m not saying ganking is bad. Just that the interactions and mechanics are. Ganking itself in terms of ships exploding is fine.
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I’m struggling to get on the same page.
Personally, I think ganking is un-interactive and the lowest grade of PvP ever offered in highsec.
I also think James 318 would agree with me.
Now, that said… having a bump-off with a freighter on the line… that sounds borderline exciting.
■■■■, I’d do it for a buddy and i’d Be hoping like hell some gankers showed up to give us some action.
My opinion… but I love maneuver and competition. The scram/web suicide option strikes me as artless, but easily done.
The problem with this thinking is that the ganker hasn’t just spent 5 hours waiting around before hand in the current meta on their bumper. The bumper chooses when and where. The defender has to always have it. Which means it is once again super boring for the defender and needs alts or someone spending their whole day helping a low isk income activity. (Hauling is low isk income usually).
I think we are close to the same page, given your first part about current ganks being boring.
But imagine instead of a bump off, the freighter itself can have a prop mod, used smartly a mwd can dramatically speed up alignment, and let them avoid bumps or get back under control after one. Now imagine trying to catch it with that first bump while you are locking it, then having a two minute window to kill it with your one ship while it gets to fight back a bit, overheat its tank or prop etc in an attempt to escape.
Now wouldn’t that be far more exciting since they don’t need to spend hours waiting or using alts, not need alts or not as many on both sides, and idiots will still explode just fine.
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