High sec needs more war decs

[Aiko_Danuja]

Please do not post in my forum threads. You are low quality content, and my posts are reserved only for quality members of the EVE community.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

[Dracvlad]

I will have the last laugh on this.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

Oh, I’m sure I’ll live to regret this.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Destiny_Corrupted

I’m all ears for a good story if you want to tell it.

It all starts here: I WAS A CODE. SPACE BULLY

Before long, it was here: I was also a CODE. space bully

Eventually, it will be here: https://www.james315.space/

[Dracvlad]

Again you come over as massively confused, do you want people fighting back or not? You stopped in 2014 and are just recently back, or so you said you are, but there is nothing recent on the character you post on since May 2014.

I just see you as ranting on the forums with no real knowledge of what is going on in the game itself.

[Aiko_Danuja]

Dracvlad!

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Dracvlad

Again you come over as massively confused

Then perhaps you should unconfuse me by responding to my original inquiry.

@Aiko_Danuja

Dracvlad!

But my Lady, if the jester is gone, who will entertain the court?

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Destiny_Corrupted

if the jester is gone, who will entertain the court?

Not this one, it is stale.

[Dracvlad]

@Destiny_Corrupted

Then perhaps you should unconfuse me by responding to my original inquiry.

I said this is developing and I know of people who are doing this. It will pan out as things develop. Cool, relax, chill.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Dracvlad

It will pan out as things develop.

Translation: It has not actually happened.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Aiko_Danuja

@Destiny_Corrupted

if the jester is gone, who will entertain the court?

Not this one, it is stale.

/me glances over at @Nicolai_Serkanner and performs a very subtle neck chop motion

[Dracvlad]

@Aiko_Danuja

Translation: It has not actually happened.

In process, Rome was not built in a day.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Dracvlad

In process, Rome was not built in a day.

Translation: Not only has it not happened, but neither should you expect it to happen in the foreseeable future. It will inevitably end in failure.

[Dracvlad]

I highlighted the important part in reply to your comment:

@Dracvlad

I suggest that eventually there will be a number of strong structure owning groups that will have hardened defences and a mass of allies that will come in and support those structures, it will be real combat and all the farmers will ignore that content as it is too risky and they will moan on the forums, like Aiko…

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Dracvlad

@Aiko_Danuja

Translation: It has not actually happened.

In process, Rome was not built in a day.

Rome was not built in a day, but it sure as ■■■■ got ■■■■■■ up in one. Good luck with your little project, though. And of course you have my sincere condolences in advance.

[Aiko_Danuja]

RIP ROME!

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Merin_Ryskin

Then what’s the problem? If these top industrial players are in EVE forever then why does it matter if the hordes of “MINERALS I MINE MYSELF ARE FREE” idiots quit? You’re just proving the point that these players add nothing of value to EVE.

Oh so many reasons… but just to name a few.

First off, there aren’t very many of those players in the literal sense. There are, however, quite a few people who fit what I think you mean, but don’t play how you think they do. There are a lot of fairly casual players in Eve, and I say that as someone who has played this game a very long time, almost as long as you have, and I guarantee spent more time around newer and more casual players.

If everyone in Eve who you might consider “casual” leaves the game then the game will, simply put, die. There’s this ridiculous fiction among some Eve players that everyone who plays this game is this super hardcore person, and that “Carebears” are this tiny minority when in reality the majority of people who have ever played this game have, eventually, gotten bored and quit, and the majority of people actively playing at any given time are probably “casual”.

If those people go away then all the fights and content and people go away, and you’ll end up with a relative ghost town, like back when the game started and you could go 10+ jumps through any given part of Low Sec and be unlikely to see anyone.

There simply aren’t enough of these mythical hardcore players to populate Eve and keep it going, and there basically never have been.

@Merin_Ryskin

If those PvP players wish to continue doing PvP after a hypothetical loss of industry then someone in their alliance will have to fill in the missing production (and will have incentives to do so).

Yes, but incentive only goes so far, and people will burn out and quit if they’re forced to do something they hate.

If all the industrialists and miners and logistics folks left Null or left the game entirely you’d see most people quit in frustration, not jump in to fill the gap, because suddenly they’re being forced to do something they didn’t sign up for.

@Merin_Ryskin

People like that really exist? I suppose they must, given the assorted masochism on display at your local BDSM club, but are they really playing EVE in sufficient numbers to be worth discussing?

Again, see above, yes. Who do you think runs the incursion groups, writes the Level 4 and 5 mission guides, and does all that PvE?

Like, every “My Raven was Fitted with the Following” loss you’ve ever seen or heard of was someone like that, and there’s hundreds of those people for every one that does something noticeable. Hells, I’ve gone through periods where all I did was run missions. For me at least it’s relaxing, at least when I’ve got a good enough ship, and I’ve talked to plenty of people over the years who have said similar things.

Again, these are the folks who populate the game and create “content” for everyone.

@Merin_Ryskin

Why are we discussing the possibility of not having anyone to shoot in PvP? The low-effort “casual” players almost always play the game in a way that avoids PvP as much as possible. If they all quit some of the low-effort gankers might be disappointed that there aren’t enough day-old mining frigates to kill but hardly anyone else will notice.

Because there are players like this in every aspect of the game. I once met someone who basically did occasional mission running on the weekends and would load up on cheap T1 hulls with Meta/T2 fits and go out on the weekends for a few hours and basically just get into fights, not caring if he lost the ships.

Hells there were so many jokes back when I was in Eve Uni about eager new players with more enthusiasm than talent or trigger discipline. If you’d like I can see if I can find a copy of the old Eve Uni drinking fleet drinking game, or “How to achieve alcohol poisoning on a trip from Aldrat to Rens and back”

[Foggy_Bernstein]

A whole lot of fan fiction in this thread.

[Cade_Windstalker]

@Black_Pedro

This was pointed out by many people at the time, but CCP just went with another bandaid, nerfing wars yet again. The meta shifted, new loopholes were adapted to, and predictably less wars and activity took place in highsec.

Yes, though in fairness to CCP I think this is probably better than the old system, it just has a different set of problems. Not, obviously, if you’re a ganker, but overall I think the pros outweigh the cons.

There’s probably no perfect wardec system, because fundamentally it’s about people who want to engage in PvP and people who kinda don’t, or at least don’t want people to blow up as much of their stuff as those people would like.

@Black_Pedro

Absolutely it should be possible to have a corp that is immune to wars. But that should come with trade-offs. A social corp is basically a chat channel, and players should be at no more risk than if in the NPC corp. But the benefits of being in a corp should come with trade-offs, and as you start using more complex, and especially the more lucrative, aspects of corp tools, you should be at more risk.

I mean, it’s at least in the direction of what we got. The largest mechanical benefit to being in a corp is in the structures, and if you have a structure in space then you’re fair game to be war dec’d.

Outside of that there’s a few very small mechanical benefits to being in a corp, like the corp hangar, but those are mostly organizational and social, which is I think what CCP was going for. Which brings me to this…

@Black_Pedro

I always find it amazing that CCP falls into the same trap, over and over again, despite the fact even their “studies” point to the fact that a safer game isn’t a more active game. I mean, they do seem to have learned that lesson when it comes to some of their efforts lately, but I guess the lure of the “easy” fix is pretty great when you have limited resources and a huge backlog of game systems that could use your attention.

CCP is definitely aware that “safer is not necessarily better”, I can dig up that old quote from I think CCP Falcon about how their internal data showed that a PvP loss actually correlated with higher retention, but I think we were both posting in that thread so…

Anyways, the thing that gets missed out of that though is that social interaction correlated to retention, and PvP is just another form of interaction. The problem with the existing corp structure was that it basically ended up being a punishment for social interaction. Want to have a social group of your friends where you can share resources or anything? Well, you’re gonna get war dec’d… and that’s a bad incentive system to have when your players joining social groups is the biggest impact on them staying in the game.

BTW I am curious if I’ve missed a benefit in my recollection of corp life here, is there some big thing that isn’t tied to structures that I’m forgetting about?