At no point is PvP removed.
They can still be ganked for direct combat, or Out performed in mining, trading, ect… on other fronts.
Wardecs allow a rich group to inflict low sec on a poor group while themselves still enjoying the comforts of concord protection against everyone else. That’s fine, as far as it goes, but the poor group should have the option of doing something meaningful to their aggressors. Since their aggressors have money, just destroying ships means nothing.
Suicide ganking is not a solution and you know it. The cost is so high for all but the PvE players with the worst wealth to intelligence ratio (a group that does not include any newbies by definition) that it’s effectively impossible. A group of players flying around in T1 cruisers with reasonable fits is effectively immune to PvP in highsec.
Nor is “out-compete them” an option for targeted attacks. The highsec population is sufficiently large that the impact of any single person on the economy is negligible. No matter how efficiently you mine ore you will not disrupt the operations of another player. You will certainly make yourself wealthy in the process, but they won’t even notice your presence.
Wardecs allow a rich group to inflict low sec on a poor group while themselves still enjoying the comforts of concord protection against everyone else. That’s fine, as far as it goes, but the poor group should have the option of doing something meaningful to their aggressors. Since their aggressors have money, just destroying ships means nothing.
And this is just plain stupid. Inflicting losses means nothing? Are you serious? This is almost as dumb as your ideas on AFK cloaking.
The group running around in combat fit cruisers was already immune to this sort of thing. The kind of cowards that hide behind blanket 'decs for their pvp would never engage a combat fit cruiser, let alone a group of them.
yes. Inflicting losses means nothing. It’s evident by your attitude that you understand this already. How much do you care about your ship? Does getting it blown up bother you at all? Can you easily replace it and go back to looking for a defenseless target to harass?
See, it’s a sandbox game. Those people don’t want to play the direct pvp part of the game. They want to industry or pve or whatever, and that’s fine because it’s a sandbox. They don’t care about killing your ship, or they would be in combat ships looking for you. Inflicting losses means nothing to you and even less to them because it won’t get them what they do want, which is an end to being harassed while trying to play the parts of the game they enjoy.
Yet actually providing them a target which will enable the goals of both parties fixes this. You get to harass them while still enjoying concord protection from everyone else, and they get a chance to stop you from doing that. You are really, really afraid of any kind of challenge that isn’t completely one sided, so I don’t expect you to appreciate that.
Wait, I thought ship losses don’t matter? If ship losses don’t matter then why be afraid to engage the solo cruiser?
yes. Inflicting losses means nothing. It’s evident by your attitude that you understand this already. How much do you care about your ship? Does getting it blown up bother you at all? Can you easily replace it and go back to looking for a defenseless target to harass?
Hilarious double standard there, given your stubborn insistence on how important it is to be able to destroy AFK cloakers, for nothing more than the pleasure of destroying their ships. If losses mean nothing then why do you care about inflicting them?
Those people don’t want to play the direct pvp part of the game.
Too bad. The direct PvP part of EVE is not something you get to opt out of. Either deal with it or quit. I’d be surprised that you can’t grasp such a simple concept that has been so explicitly stated by the developers, but this is you we’re talking about.
Ask them. Why do they insist on only attacking solo miners? Why when such a group does field resistance do they go running to dock up? Because like all sadistic bullies they are cowards.
The insistence of destroying a cloaked ship is related… in both cases it’s an end to harassment so that people can get back to playing with the sand that they enjoy. You can’t escape the need to deal with direct pvp, but you can get it over with and go back to the fun parts. You know, unless your enemy has a cloak, and then they can opt out of direct PvP for as long as they like. It’s not my position that is hypocritical, it’s yours.
So what you’re saying here is that winning a war is easy. All you have to do is field a token resistance, and the aggressor flees the battlefield and leaves you to act without interference. And yet this token resistance is still too much to ask, and you want it to be impossible to start the war in the first place. No.
No, winning a war is currently impossible.
Lets say you field resistance. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
So you go back and reship for combat. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
So you go back and reship for combat. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
So you go back and reship for combat. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
So you go back and reship for combat. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
So you go back and reship for combat. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
So you go back and reship for combat. They dock. WIN!
You go back out to play the way you enjoy, they come back, maybe destroy a ship, but more importantly you can’t do the thing you consider fun in the game.
Forever. No end in sight. Eternal harassment that makes, for those people, a very unfun experience in the game.
I can see where having a captive audience for your sadistic tendencies is something you would appreciate. It’s not a good game for anyone else though.
IOW, you don’t understand that EVE is a PvP game, and think that it’s a problem when people can’t 100% opt out of PvP without any consequences. No wonder you want to nerf AFK cloaking and make your RMT farming 100% safe.
PS: it’s very easy to break the cycle by staying in an NPC corp, you just don’t get the benefits of being in a player corp.
You don’t understand that EVE is a Sandbox.
You keep putting arbitrary limits on what people should do if they don’t want to play your way.
No one except cloak users can 100% opt out of PvP without consequences.
Having a mechanism to fight in order to actually win the war isn’t opting out of PvP. Try thinking about these things before posting idiocy.
You keep putting arbitrary limits on what people should do if they don’t want to play your way.
My way, and the intended design of EVE. Risk vs. reward. If you want to farm the most profitable PvE content you take the highest risks in doing so. Being a sandbox doesn’t mean that "I want all the best profit but no risk because I hate PvP’ is a permissible choice.
No one except cloak users can 100% opt out of PvP without consequences.
Again with this lie. Cloaked ships can only “opt out of PvP” by doing nothing. No wealth generation, no PvP, just sitting there idle in space. That is a major consequence.
Having a mechanism to fight in order to actually win the war isn’t opting out of PvP. Try thinking about these things before posting idiocy.
It isn’t, but I’m not replying to your structure idea. I’m talking about your claims that PvP is “harassment” or how terrible it is that newbies can’t go straight to endgame content and expect to succeed.
Your structure idea is a bad one because structure grinding in its current state is a terrible mechanic, and anything that expands the role of structure grinding is a bad idea.
It’s all PvP, but not all PvP is the same.
What you seem to want is for all of EVE to play like battlefield. Just a bunch of morons blowing eachother up without care or consequence.
EvE is designed as a PvP sandbox where you can choose to pursue other goals than just blowing the other guy up for shits and giggles. If you happen to be one of those people who enjoy pursuing those goals then you can’t win a war, because for them the point of the war isn’t to blow up ships, it is to get back to pursuing that goal.
It’s the same with cloaking. The point to Null is empire building, not just blowing up guys for giggles. The point to the camping is to break those empires, and for that purpose it’s broken because it’s utterly safe.
Fortunately you have finally shown a faint glimmer of intelligence in stating that you don’t like the structure idea because you don’t like structure bashing. That’s a fair point, but fortunately you would never have to worry about it as you would never want to end a war since all you want to do is mindlessly blow up ships. You would be inflicting the need to structure bash on those other guys who didn’t want to put combat ships in space in the first place.
Sandbox gives you freedom. But it also gives people the freedom to attack you. Noobs are gonna get shot but this isn’t unique to eve. New players get shot in any pvp game, but they learn from their losses.
Holding their hand and smothering them in bubble rap doesn’t help them. Telling them they can’t do anything until they are several months old certainly isn’t going to help them.
Nothing stops people from shooting the noobs.
Keeping high sec mechanics in high sec isn’t hand holding. It’s fine that you can pay a fee to suspend concord protection, but you should be to restore it as well. If that way is through combat, so much the better— they didn’t get to avoid pvp or consequences, you got your fight, everyone has a more enjoyable game.
I know. Don’t forget this:
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/452609/
But newplayers don’t need extra protection from decs. They need protection from moron leadership.
Smart bombs say hi. Cloak is not an opt out of PvP for sure.
However a structure for war has been brought up regularly and shot down with the same flaw every time. It simply won’t work like you think
Lol. Ok… tell me this. You have a cloaker in system. Somewhere.
Please, detail how you get within smartbomb range of someone who can’t be scanned down and isn’t on grid.
Hell, even if he is on grid he has a near zero chance of ever being found by sweeps. That drops even lower if he’s actually awake and at the keyboard.
But that’s another conversation.
For on topic stuff, try to enlighten us as to the reason. You mention a flaw, but you don’t mention what it is. So far we have one almost coherent response indicating that they don’t like it because they don’t like structure bashing.
They don’t need protection from decs, but they do need a path to victory that they can work toward.
Right now there is none.
Mainly number 1.
They were chosen as a target specifically because they weren’t a threat. However, if the war were tied to a structure and limited to a certain distance from that structure then the options of either getting allies/paying mercs to take it down or ceding the territory exist.
True, but they have the option of paying someone to do it for them, or running.
I fail to see how this is an issue. This is pretty much how the rest of the game works.
A ‘problem’ I find more likely is that you would see protection scams forming as people declare war with one set of alts, and offer their services as mercs with another set of alts. Not sure this is a significant issue though, as now they simply demand ransoms for ending the war.
Or… They could just not log in for a week which is far less effort.
And no. It’s not how the rest of the game.works. if I want to harass the goons I can declare war in a 1 man Corp and harass them at a trade hub. If they rage and send a fleet I can dock or cloak up and cause them grief by being there but not dying to them. Introduce a structure the goons turn up, blow the structure up and laugh at costing me isk.