1, not t2
2, im a frigate warfare specialist (im good but not that good) with many solo kills in frigs, ive seen many people try to be good in a frigate but it really takes a certain type of character and a good understanding of shiptypes and tactics.
3, your aware it takes something like 2 weeks to train up basic core skills? a further two or more weeks to get good core skills? no of course not; you dont have a scooby.
4, attempting to say a new player is good in a frigate when they have none of the above and then attempting to say that âhey they can take on anything, even your average wardeck guy in a cruiser⌠with 3 neutral logiâ really REALLY just goes to show either your ineptitude, extreme lack of knowledge and/or ignorance of the game and its mechanics or⌠your really just trolling.
sounds reasonable, though i really do think more than one structure should be involved to add the âgameâ more mobility than just sitting a blob on the thing.
Rather depends which lowsec, places around tama (kedama, suj, nisuwa etc) are usually actually really busy, i dont tend to go lowsec til i have some cash to burn though; my last excursion cost me 250 mil lol; was one frig, id have had more fun if id have landed on a small frig gang but beggars cant be choosers 
but the guys who call themselves âhs mercsâ are often more interested in kb efficiency i guess, again wardecks in highsec are really not often maintained by people who do stuff outside of it.
incase you were wondering, modelled on vagabond commonly used. about half the price, pretty sure it would be a beast when taking on small gangs of frigs
- Didnât say t2. But the skills in that list unlock t2 gear. Like i said, everything but t2 guns is unlocked in a couple of days.
- A new player doesnât have to be able to solo to be useful. If youâre telling new players that they are useless until they can solo then itâs like i said, youâre ruining the npe.
- Basic core skills not only donât take that long but are not a necessity before you can go out and shoot stuffs. Players get kills before they are two weeks old. Jesus.
- Again with the lies. Link where you think i said that. Please.
- you did say t2 âeverything BUT T2 gunsâ denotes t2 equipment, hull upgrades 4 i believe takes several days alone; i cant confirm with out looking
In fact you mentioned it twiceâŚ
2. your lack of experience with newbros and pvp is showing here, yes newbros are basically useless against someone who has been playing years. newbros, new to game; and somehow you think you can teach them in under a week?
3.
they really do, all the level 4 skills will take take maybe 2 days each in total, some will take 4 days; and thats on an omega accountâŚ
4.
I did above
You are quite clearly merely attempting to derail the thread by trolling or speaking of things which are waaay out of your expertise.
So ok⌠Hull upgrades 4 takes a day and a bit/half. As does weapon upgrades 4. T2 webs takes 2 days-ish and t2 shield tank another 2 days ish. T2 prop mod is 2 days. Approx a week for t2 everything short of guns. Week and a half/just under 2 weeks to be t2 capable with guns, prop mod, tackle and tank. Not a month!
And i was using t2 as an extreme example. You donât have to wait till you have t2 gear before you can shoot anything.
As someone who has gotten players younger than a week on kills in low sec yes i can teach them something. Iâve been playing with new players for most of my eve life. As a comparison, hundreds of players donât leave when weâre decced. We got the aggressors to dock up sometimes.
Level 4 is not basic. This is what Iâm telling you. If you are telling people they have to have level 4 core skills before they fight anyone YOU are ruining their game.
Link where i said thatâŚ
Ban me for calling your lies?
Yeah you seem the type.
Good thing you donât as dynamic IP is a thing and would potentially result in other people being affected while the poster could just reset their router or sign off and get a new IP address and continue posting.
probably but that guy seriously shouldnt be allowed to post on forums.
Thread starts off about wardecks. daicho derails into a neverending debate about anything but the wardeck system⌠claiming many things, pointing fingers claiming many other things, but never once providing anything that could be seen as constructive argument for debate. Hell even when ive shown him where he said something he attempts to pass it off as meaning something else then calls me a liar lol.
You could go with more than one structure, but I doubt it would be necessary.
As itâs only put down by the aggressor to enable the war, presumably the aggressors forces are out hunting, not blobbled on a structure.
Ultimately the goal here isnât to end wars. It might not result in any real change in the current dynamic if the aggressors have the numbers to defend the structure and still harass new guys for giggles. It does give the defenders options however.
Currently wars let the aggressors turn High Sec into Low Sec for the defenders, with very little they can do about it. Fighting just gives the aggressors what they want, Running might work but depends on the aggressors allowing it to work.
With the structure in place the defender can either run or fight. I personally find this acceptable and hope the aggressors begin to choose their targets more carefullyâan end to blanket decs and a move away from simple harassment of new players into actually finding people who want to fight without the general chaos of low/null/wormholes.
And this is why your idea is stupid. EVE is a game where PvP does not require consent. A player who does not want to fight is just as valid a target as someone who wants to fight. Allowing people to opt out of PvP, especially in space where war decs are already the only meaningful PvP threat, is directly against the core principles of EVE.
Now, if you want to make this all about protecting the newbies then fine. Adjust highsec rewards so that only newbies have any reason to be there. A veteran player who wants to farm PvE content with near-100% safety can not make any money there, and can not use highsec as a shield from PvP. Once the only players with any interest in using highsec are week-old newbies we can talk about making it safer from indiscriminate PvP threats.
Iâm not sure what your point here is. So what if it takes a month to train good core skills? A newbie is still going to be able to participate in group PvP alongside more experienced players in an established corp with very low SP. It doesnât take very long to fit a MWD and scram and add some expendable tackle to a group. Winning in solo PvP against an enemy group is not possible, but itâs also not a relevant test.
Now, this does mean that newbies need to stay in NPC corps or join an established player corp instead of starting their own corp, but so what? Just like farming level 4 missions is something that only veteran players expect to do starting and running a successful corp is a high-end activity. Nothing is stopping a group of week-old newbies from trying, but we should expect most of them to fail at it because theyâre attempting a task that is intended for players way beyond their experience level. The fact that war decs create many of these failures is a feature, not a bug.
My point is Lugburz, you are needlessly pushing noobs out of the game by making them feel impotent. Your restrictions and your whining are part of the reason those players left.
They are capable of fighting in groups before they have all core skills to level 4 (no that doesnât mean charge into a market with 10 wartargets in vindiâs. It means take em on a roam). They donât have to sit on their hands during a dec becuase hunting them is ridiculously tedious for attackers. They donât have to participate in the war at all but can still be part of the group via an out of corp chat.
Youâre missing a lot of tricks here. And if you cared about new players and the health of the game like you say, youâd listen up.
The line you quoted was in answer to another person stating it was possible for newbs to fast track into t2âŚ
Your assuming the ceo and other members are not in fact new.
They can use them straight awayâŚ
âexpendableâ so basically go and die to wardeckers? repeatedly? and this is good how? you understand the role of morale? risk vs reward? you understand the principles of âflowâ in game design?
Bad for competition as it creates none, only enforces established competition lines and is therefore not really good for growth.
Im not sure what your objective here is except stating as fact all that is wrong with hs decs vs newbros; ie. they should fail, and they should die?
Which is exactly the issue, you will now go on to say that hs mercs have trained sp and gained experience and that they deserve to be in highsec⌠which is an utterly bizarre concept; that older players should be in highsec whereas new players should not?
Next you will state (again) that new players should not be involved in the creative process and should remain in an npc corp⌠until they join a bigger corp more established corp; and how do these corps come to be? they magic themselves out of thin air?
In summary what i think i am getting from you is newbros should not be allowed to create anything new in a sandbox game, they should fly ships that will die easily and fast and that it would take a month if not longer to be able to combat anything larger than an ibis with two mining lazersâŚ
BUT tbvh i still cant believe your trying to argue that established corps and players should be able to roam free and do as they please in highsec and new players shouldnt have any of that freedom; its absolutely mind boggling.
I appreciate highsec dec corps do need targets in order to keep themselves entertained but i do not for one minute entertain the thought that good targets are presented by newbros.
I feel a read of this article may work in your favour
âDo not forget that your gameâs challenge has to match the playerâs skills in order for him to stay in a state of flow. Flow is what will keep the player on your game ultimately.â
there are many many other flaws to your argument, none of which i will go into great detail with here as i feel we are leaving the entire thread behind.
insert âsmart alecâ reply here
V V V
Yep, exactly. Go and die. Itâs a good introduction to fleet warfare where the only difference between an expendable tackle frigate and an expendable command ship is that the tackle frigate costs less. Everything dies in PvP, and in fleet PvP you die repeatedly so that your fleet as a whole can win. Newbies who canât handle this donât belong in EVE.
Now, that doesnât mean dying for no purpose. But a newbie should expect that their primary role is going to be dying to get tackle on something so that the bigger ships can kill it.
Im not sure what your objective here is except stating as fact all that is wrong with hs decs vs newbros; ie. they should fail, and they should die?
It is not required that they fail and die, but it should be expected. A newbie starting a corp is the equivalent of a newbie in a T1 frigate trying to farm level 4 missions. Theyâre a new player attempting to do an advanced part of the game. Itâs possible to succeed (and probably more likely than finishing a level 4 mission), but success should not in any way be expected. Nor should failure indicate that something is wrong with the system.
Which is exactly the issue, you will now go on to say that hs mercs have trained sp and gained experience and that they deserve to be in highsec⌠which is an utterly bizarre concept; that older players should be in highsec whereas new players should not?
Itâs not about âdeservingâ to be in highsec. Newbies can be in highsec, and have a variety of options for doing so. They can stay in NPC corps and be effectively 100% safe while they learn the game. They can join a player corp, but avoid the few systems where aggressor corps tend to hang out. After all, they are newbies learning the game. Not having safe access to Jita to compete in the high-end market PvP there is not a major problem, the newbie can learn market PvP in quieter systems before trying to compete with the most experienced market PvP players.
Next you will state (again) that new players should not be involved in the creative process and should remain in an npc corp⌠until they join a bigger corp more established corp; and how do these corps come to be? they magic themselves out of thin air?
They can be started and run by experienced players. Creating new corps is fine. Newbies with minimal game experience creating new corps should expect to fail.
In summary what i think i am getting from you is newbros should not be allowed to create anything new in a sandbox game,
Why do you think that they should be able to create major things in a sandbox game? EVE is a long-term game, a game where training a single skill for a week is considered a short-term skill. EVE rewards long-term investment, it isnât an instant gratification game for people with the attention span of a goldfish. Letting newbies create successful corps right away breaks that system, handing the newbie the endgame goal right from the beginning. And yeah, maybe the newbie is happy at their immediate reward, but what does that leave for the long term? What point is there in continuing to play if youâre handed every accomplishment within the first month of your career?
I feel a read of this article may work in your favour
Nope. EVE is not a game where player retention is the priority. It is not meant to appeal to a mass audience. A high turnover rate is a good thing, because it means that EVE is not compromising its core identity for short-term profits. We should expect that most people who try EVE hate it and stop playing, because EVE is not a game for everyone.
IT IS A GAME FOR EVERYONE THATS EXACTLY WHAT A SANDBOX IS MEANT TO BE??
Your whole ethos seem to be intrinsically linked to the belief that new players who start out in highsec shouldnt be there, that they should die to people a lot and that they should either diaf, gtfo or go to more dangerous areas of space yet you continously ignore the fact that the groups decking them do neither of those things, so how can you expect anyone to bother reading whatever it is your writing or indeed take anything you say seriously?
No it isnât, not at all. A sandbox is a game where you have the chance to build something. It is NOT a game where you are handed success, regardless of the fact that you have done nothing to earn it, the moment you attempt something. Part of the sandbox is that new players who try to bypass all of the learning and building up to accomplishments by going straight for endgame things like creating a corp will probably fail. They have the ability to attempt it, but success is not and should not be guaranteed.
Your whole ethos seem to be intrinsically linked to the belief that new players who start out in highsec shouldnt be there, that they should die to people a lot and that they should either diaf, gtfo or go to more dangerous areas of space yet you continously ignore the fact that the groups decking them do neither of those things, so how can you expect anyone to bother reading whatever it is your writing or indeed take anything you say seriously?
IOW, youâre incapable of arguing this subject without making up straw man arguments. New players who start in highsec start in NPC corps that are immune to war decs, and as a result have essentially 100% immunity to PvP. It is their choice to accept a greater level of risk by creating/joining a player corp.
you keep saying it isnt though dont you?
your going round in circles just asking or answering the same questions in different ways, i read your first libe then decide the rest probably isnt worth itâŚ
Oh FFS, this is not complicated.
A sandbox game is one where you can build stuff.
A newbie attempting to do endgame-level content as a newbie is unlikely to succeed, even in a sandbox game. The fact that they canât do all of the cool stuff right away, and have to work towards endgame content, does not mean that the game is not a sandbox game.
An experienced player with high skills (player skill and SP) and connections with other players, things they have worked to build, can make a corp and have a much higher chance of success. War decs are much less of a threat to them, as they know the ways to avoid combat and have the resources to win if they choose to engage. Success is not guaranteed of course, much like a ship can be destroyed while running missions if you screw up, but failure is not near-inevitable.
tl;dr