hi sec has abyssal like null sec, + mining conduits, and some incursions
doing t4s with a solo gila provides you approximately the same amount of isks/h than ratting with a carrier in null sec, for a 400M cost (Gila) vs a 1.5B (carrier)
I know what exists in hisec, what does that even mean? I asked for more high end content to keep people interested, you donât need to tell me what already exists, but if you want I can add the fact that FOBâs are high end content too.
You must be picking something with off the scale LP returns for that sort of return. If you are going to make such ridiculous statements back it up with the exact mission location and LPâs and breakdown on what you used the LP on and so on. It is meaningless otherwiseâŠ
This thread tells me âŠ
Sometimes a wardec is just better for making a point.
Lucas you absolutely nailed it with these posts:
Awesome sauceâŠ
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Simply not true. Most ships canât be ganked profitably, and nobody is ganking random T1-fit T1 cruisers when there are much better targets to go after. You can fly around completely obliviously as long as you arenât an idiot when you fit your ship. Good luck doing that anywhere that doesnât have CONCORD protection.
The fact that an area is safe or not is not affected by the mecahnism by which it became safe.
Of course it is.
Highsec is safe because of game mechanics that guarantee permanent safety for everyone but the dumbest players.
Nullsec is safe because of player choices that could change at any time and only protect those players who are part of the right groups. Everyone else can be killed at any time without anything to protect them, and at any time the players involved could decide to end the safety and begin the slaughter.
So yes, there is a huge difference between guaranteed safety and conditional safety.
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Ahhhh.
What a beautiful day for a Dracvlad x Lucas Kell circle-jerk.
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That is not what he said, he said ganked, not ganked profitably, that is a completely different thing. You are going off on a diversionary tangent which is utterly meaningless. Aaargh for example murders huge numbers of T1 ships with T1 fits, and profit is not requiredâŠ
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Itâs not meaningless at all. Hardly anyone is ganking random unprofitable ships just to get killmails, so that risk is barely relevant when considering the danger level of highsec. Suicide ganking only becomes a meaningful threat if your ship is a profitable target and draws the vastly larger number of attackers who are in it as a business.
Itâs implicit in âcan be gankedâ, because thatâs what determines if being ganked in highsec is a realistic risk that you should be concerned about or a theoretical risk that only exists when highsec farmer trash shows up on the forums and needs to invent justification for their demands for more safety in highsec. The simple fact is that if your ship is not a profitable gank target your risk level in highsec is essentially zero.
We agree. Case closed.
Only because you cut those sentence fragments completely out of context and ignored the difference between space that is inherently safe because game mechanics guarantee it and space that is conditionally safe for certain players because they actively work to fight against the dangers and keep it clear.
Show me where Lucas said âprofitablyâ? He did not, I agree with you and Lucas that most ships cannot be ganked profitably, but we are talking about being ganked, and in the loose sense of the word a hot drop on a sub cap by mass numbers of BLOPâs is a gank.
In nullsec you often kill stuff because it is there, no matter what it is and gankers do the same in hisec, for example when PL decide to afk cloaky camp my alliance the last time I was in nullsec we maintained the ADMâs by flying cheap T1 cruisers doing the low level sites, the funny thing was that they dropped me once and I just laughed as I had another ten ships set up like that and told them so. But even better I got more kills on their drops over time, so how does that work back in your evaluation? That is the only time I used a cheap T1 cruiser to rat in 0.0, during a sustained but ultimately totally ineffective largely afk cloaky camping campaign by PL.
I had a corp mate who would run 6 AFK VNI ratters and he hardly lost a ship, used to annoy me a bit because I was running VNI ratters myself, but never AFK and sometimes the blighter would warp in on my site and miss I was already doing it.
The simple fact is that CODE for example has declared themselves at war with all of hisec who donât bow down to them, so profit is not part of their ideology as such, though it is of course a major motive for freighter ganking or hauler ganking. You would think that someone like me would have CODE crawling all over me, but they donât.
CONCORD does not make players safe, if you believe that then what can I sayâŠ
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Blah blah blah who cares. The context is evaluating the risks of highsec, and in highsec if your ship isnât a profitable gank target then itâs extremely unlikely that anyone will even try. Unless youâre an idiot the risk of ship loss in highsec is effectively zero.
CONCORD does not make players safe
Nonsense. CONCORD makes players safe by making the cost of an attack higher than the reward, even if the player takes no action of their own to defend themselves. That deterrence factor grants effectively 100% safety to anyone who isnât a complete idiot. On the other hand, if you remove CONCORD from highsec the chances of ship loss go up immensely and attacks would be constant. So if the presence of CONCORD has that much of an effect on the chances of ship loss what else can you call it besides CONCORD making players safe?
Yeah I know, but we canât. We could, at best, figure out their structures-holding-corps and grind the structures down. I have a feeling theyâre owning more than enough to not care about that.
And This: https://www.silentcoalition.com/
I guess what we really need is CCP stopping corporations from hiding structures in holding corps to protect people from having war declared upon them, so Hilmar puts his money where his mouth is.
You are wrong, plenty of people in cheap ships get ganked, you need to re-evaluate your assumptions.
You are suggesting that it makes players 100% safe, that is not the case. Why do you people deal in such absolutes?
Have you considered the possibility he never cared about you?
Well as soon as I told him he would mumble something about not having his overview set for blues, apologise and warp off to another site. So no, I never considered that possibility.
Because Iâve seen it coming up: Itâs troublesome when someone uses âmy gameplayâ like âusing carriers in highsec is what i doâ. Itâs one of these fake arguments which could be used as a reason to justify and allow anything and everything. Itâs the fruits of identity politics, where everyone wrongly believes that heâs entitled to being however he wants to be, completely ignoring what everyone else thinks, or the consequences. Itâs a manipulation tactic, nothing more and nothing less.
It further gives the impression that âi only ever do one thing and one thing only, which is what i identify withâ is a thing. It isnât. Most people do many things. Someone claiming that his âgame styleâ is whatever it is he is doing, has a problem, because it means heâs actually identifying with what he does.
That means that heâs also going to rage really hard as soon as someone interferes with what he does. It ties together with ânot caring about what everone else thinksâ, because he feels entitled to being left alone and doing what he wants, everyone else be damned.
Their channel is filled with people from their alliance, not at all understanding what theyâre supporting. They donât think about it, they just read âmore freedom for individualityâ and think itâs a good idea, unaware of how itâs nothing but a manipulation tactic.
What also bothers me is this ââ â â â the poorâ attitude. It shows what kind of person he really is. He doesnât give a rats arse about anyone. Members of Silent Company are being killed every day, everywhere, mostly new players too. Itâs not the problem that theyâre getting killed, of course, but that theyâre being hoarded into an organisation that does not at all care about teaching them anything at all.
Thatâs also how kills like this one happen:
They have huge numbers, yet no one scouted for this guy.
Their killboard is filled with losses. Only occasionally thereâs a green line to be seen, indicating that no one is ever training them, or teaching them properly. No fleets going to lowsec. Nothing. Itâs just a huge ââ â â â youâ thrown at literally everyone, while he misuses the ideas of âfreedomâ and âindividualityâ for his own selfish gains.
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calm down, i donât think my post aggressive, yes?
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you ask for more high-end content for hi-sec, i answer to you that several forms of hi-end pve content are already available in hi sec (abyssal, incursions, mining conduits, and yes, you are right FOBs, i did not even talk about missions). So⊠except for pve sites in wormholes c4-c6, i think that most hi-end pve content is as available for hi-sec than for null-sec. So why would you ask for more high-end content for hi-sec and not for null-sec? new content is welcome, but for all parts of eve, no? like abyssal sites?
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learn to read instead of getting upset and agressing people: i did not write anythg about missions and LPs. I talked about T4s abyssal. I suppose that you are able to differentiate a T from a L? I just tried to explain that hi sec players can make decent amount of isks in hi-sec (abyssal, missions etc) and already have access to high-end content. That seems pretty clearâŠ
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I think you should calm down if you think I was uptight in anyway, merely bemused.
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You are misunderstanding this suggestion, I want CCP to continue to develop high end content for hisec, the recent invasions and emerging conduits have been fantastic and I want CCP to continue on this path. Hisec PvE is now fun.
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My bad I did read L4 rather than T4. I am rather used to people trying to incorrectly compare the two.
But I donât get the point you were trying to make at all here. You are comparing running Abysal sites in a Gila to running nullsec anomalies in a carrier. First of all the Gila for T4 is much more expensive than 400m, so that is wrong, next issue is that it is rather easy to gank people in hisec when they return. They are totally different content, and merely sitting there comparing ISK in terms of cost to set up to run and ISK per hour is not what casual players want, they want fun and engaging content.
I should also point out that you go to the Abyss, so to me it is abyssal space.
This is an issue, but it seems to be one of those âif you donât like it, adapt and do something about itâ ones.
I start new characters from time to to test various things. Over the last year or two Iâve noticed that a lot of those new characters, before they ever even talk in local or help chat or interact with anyone, get invited to private convo and to join a corp from the same 2 - 4 sources. A Russian/English mining corp (canât recall the name atm, Conoco or something like that?), some lameass corp that invites everyone, and the Strategic Exploration and Development Corp (iirc) which is the newbie-recruiting arm of this Silent Coalition bunch, from what I can tell.
I never join any of these and generally block them as soon as I see them, so I canât comment on the quality of what they do or donât do (other than spamming out thousands of blind invites, of course).
However the simple answer seems to be, if you donât like them doing this, then get out there and recruit them into a better corporation.
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