Uh brisc has already told you how he feels. You won’t see how other csm feel about it except @Mike_Azariah
CCP or CSM.
Mis-contextualizing someone is an example of intellectual dishonesty.
But you know this.
BRISC RUBAL is on the csm. Again he told you what he thinks.
Again, there’s a process:
I’m content to let it work.
o7
As polite feedback: For someone who “reserves the right to dismiss those who dismiss me” and is “waiting for a better solution”, you sure quickly latched onto convenient portions of my text and ignored the thrust of my meaning while refusing to engage. I thought I meaningfully engaged with the core framing of your proposal. The fault must clearly be mine.
Good luck.
I specifically state why it doesn’t stand. I see you did not manage to address the standing of your position.
Sorry, given this is the case, was there something to be done other than dismiss it?
Or am I supposed to support the false premise that any of these posters are interested in more than shooting / shutting it down?
I think not.
But it certainly makes it clear why there aren’t more people contributing ideas. Wowsah.
o7
That is a 2017 repost of an ancient CSM document and does not represent how we do things in 2022. Folks are free to post whatever they want and ask for our input, but if you’re looking for a Senate style colloquy or a Prime Minister’s Questions style discussion, you are going to be waiting a while. As was noted, only Mike A and I make it a point to read and converse with folks on these forums.
Ah, well. That does change things, doesn’t it?
Thank you for letting me know. Feel free to remove this topic, I won’t waste any more of my (or your) time.
o7
I think disorganized applies more than apathetic, but who cares?
I have often been called the hisec rep when running for the csm (and serving 5 terms) although I voice my opinion on everything brought up, not just ‘hisec stuff’ And yes, I have been following along in this thread.
Over the years a few myths seem to just entrench themselves deeper and deeper into the game and its players. Hisec doesn’t do pvp being one of them. Hisec people face ganks and wardecs and all the rest of the game AND a lot of people in hisec are alts of low and null characters running support/logistics or just making isk to support themselves. While some may believe themselves able to pass some pve or pve purity test I have serious doubts.
I agree with Brisc that a common definition of PvP involves initiating it and not just being the victim/target.
The disorganized and apathetic comment though. No, what they are is diverse and not beholding to one entity who determines whether they can stay in the space they occupy. They do all sorts of game play and that leads to them no ‘organizing’ because they do not answer one master. They play the game as they wish. They care about their own playstyle and ships but, being diverse, they do not have a lot of common ground to complain on as one voice.
And that is the core of it. Hisec players do not band together. For all that they are called sheep? They do not all move in herds. There is no common ground that they meet upon aside from the region of space.
Someone asked me, the other day, if I could steer CCP and decide what group to work on, NPE or NULL? I told them neither and that they thought too binary. I would like to see more stuff for the middle, the daily players who just play the game and go on with their lives.
Don’t get me wrong, NPE has been something I have worked on a lot with CCP and I have paid attention to the NUll changes to see how they shake out. But I feel like we are ignoring that ‘apathetic and disorganized’ population and I am fairly sure that their numbers do not merit such disrespect.
Last thing (for now) Ever notice that the BIG Eve eSport Tournament is made for Alliances? Ask yourself who is being left out and why.
m
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Thank you for this post.
I would add that I do not think CCP or players are ignoring this population.
I think they are actively devaluing and dismissing this population.
The thread to date quite eloquently demonstrates it.
Given that this population is very likely the reason the lights are still on, and given they both have the largest share of revenue as well as the largest potential to grow revenue, and given they are the source of the ONLY positive impact on overall player numbers, you’d think folks would be a little less likely to run them over trying to keep propping up an unsustainable system.
But, I find in digger a bit deeper that CCP has declared self-sufficiency to be anathema; essentially saying there’s no future in them investing in that market.
That’s not the kind of thing anyone here can hope to talk them back from, and it’s probably the nail that seals a coffin on ideas like mine, as it basically refuses consideration even to the point of a proof of concept pass.
That’s an intentional choice.
I believe time will prove that the moment this population discovers for themselves that this is the case, they do indeed have ‘the choice’ you want them to make… they just tend not to make the one you believe they should. Reliably.
That is not a product flaw. It is a leadership one.
o7
You say I should have rebut your argument, so of course you had to dismiss it. Naturally, given it was your first response at all I had no opportunity to even address your rebuttal. Your initial response was to dismiss it. You pretend I had an opportunity when I had none.
Let’s look at your core rebuttal argument:
What industry? The gaming industry as a whole, the MMO industry, the sci-fi spaceship games industry, or some other sub-segment, or the in-game Eve industry? What basis is your opinion formed upon? What informs your opinion for me to rebut? What chance do I have to engage with such a curt opinion carelessly tossed to the wind, with the expectation for me to chase after it and catch it and divine your meaning and understanding? You’re trying to entrap me into accusations of “strawman”.
You offered me nothing but curt rhetoric, and expect me to correctly divine the inner machinations and nuances of your argument. If I could mind-read, I wouldn’t be here, but retired on a tropical island somewhere. The above is my meta-feedback.
To return to the topic at hand, I can give a general rebuttal: I firmly disagree. Source: I work in the software industry, and I can include amongst my current coworkers ex-Blizzard (MMO) game developers and ex-Ubisoft game developers. In my discussions about their experiences in the gaming business, there’s never the “only-X activity player”, it is always “let players do all the activities” because that’s how engagement metrics are driven. That’s to rebut the “real-world industry” interpretation. To rebut the “Eve industry” interpretation: based on my experience in the Eve industry in high, low, and null sec, peers vertically integrate so they do varied activities from PI to exploration to invention to copying to mining to building to market selling to hauling to ratting to salvaging, with the PVP fleet defense required to defend the needed structures (Hence the “let palyers do all the activities” engagement metrics).
It’s called ethnography and it’s a discipline with its own degree.
And yes, it is a classification and taxonomy and practice of accurately codifying social practices, cultural practices, and their various expressions in day to day life.
It is FAR from the only one that is used in industry work.
o7
To be honest duc we just want to hang out with our pals in social channels and mine together while watching local for gankers, but if sitting in station writing a thesis on the phycology of eve online is your thing in this great big sandbox then we aren’t about to go crying to the CSM about it.
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I take it you didn’t watch any of the GDC videos. (chuckle)
No one cares hoss.
What I find funny is you are making a fuss, yet aren’t trying to go out there and solve the problem.
Just wanted that attention huh?
What I find funny is you are acting as if posting a suggestion in the place where we are told to post suggestions is not part of ‘trying to solve the problem’.
It’s funny because it’s so clearly incorrect. 
o7
Ah,
So you aren’t doing anything actually.
Thanks for confirming 
Well, I would be, but I’m currently wasting my time on people who are more concerned with forum PvP and their status quo than discussing suggestions.
It explains quite a lot about the state of the game, so thanks for that.
o7 [signing off on this thread. have at it. ]
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Ahh so that’s whose alt you are
Thanks for giving yourself away
the suggestions they want to discuss are always, without fail, changing other people’s gameplay, and not their own.