Yeah good point, this would probably help, although more like 100% rising to 200% for quiet systems. Mission rewards are pretty poor & a lot of LP store stuff is incredibly slow to sell or costs more in components than it’s worth.
Just move L3 and L4 missions to lowsec to balance risk vs reward. I am sure everyone can agree on this!
They may be veterans doing a mix of selling at prices that resources large stockpiles still make ok for them. Also doing what supermarkets do. Price below cost until you have destroyed all the little local shops, then make far more raising prices once you have a monopoly but new littles face start up costs before entry.
Regardless of if it’s new players or vets with stockpiles/a deliberate market strategy, everywhere outside of Jita seems quite badly stocked now. Stuff like T2 & faction ammo runs out quite regularly (esp. weekends) & so on.
Various changes including Trigs->Uedama reducing of trade routes has been bad for the other market hubs & sub-hubs, it seems.
That’s not possible. In Eve, the entry fee is too low. Also if you do that and the other people are stubborn, you end up losing a lot of money. I tell you that, because I’ve been playing this market game against people who were trying to do as you say for years now and actually made money. Like in the 10s of B of benefit on their actions.
So while it may be a lucky possible situation, it’s definitely not a good choice.
So people who do that will end up losing more money than they realize.
Even in Jita. I have a lot of items that I can sell with a good margin, provided I am present at that time. And often I don’t have enough product, even with 400B of sellable items ^^
The question is “why people don’t place more market orders”. Well as I already said, to me (as a producer) it’s because the market is polluted by people who don’t want to place items at a good price but instead just below the lowest SO price.
Let’s get back to theory. In theory,
A market is a place that allows people who want to offer something (producer), to meet people who want to buy that thing(consumer). There is consumer and producer without a market, but the market is here to ease the transactions.
That’s the main goal of a market : making producers and consumer meet their needs. Any other goal is secondary.
A secondary role of the market is marking arbitration. This is actually a role derived from the first one : if someone expects that the price will rise in 2 days, then he can buy NOW the items of the producers, helping them make money faster, and making a benefit when he sells back in 2 days. However this should not hinder the first role, so in order for that function to be less abused, there need to be mechanisms like tax, delay in operations, that let operations that are genuine sell and filters out operations that are manipulation. It’s already difficult to draw a clear line between manipulation and genuine operations, so you need to have constraints based on objective goals, rather than based on seller intention.
For example, tax are required from this moment on. Yes, the tax that indus complain about are actually helping them to sell, that is helping having an healthy market.
A third role of the market is to help provisioning. That is, help people with a constant requirement of items, have a vision at a long-term of the cost. You can place Buy Orders in Eve . In real situation you don’t have BOs : you buy. And that’s already where the market crumbles : BOs don’t benefit the meet of producers and sellers, they only benefit market manipulation.
Within that vision, a simple fix would be : remove BOs. Note that this may be actually worse (because the game is more complex than that), it’s just that my post is already too long and this would actually fix some conceptual issues within Eve - but the price to pay may be actually too high. That’s actually one single step on making a better market - one that actually tries to make producers and consumer meet their needs.
I’d like to see CCP trial gate connections at 0.8 or above from each empire to each of the 3 other empires.
Trade routes would be better.
Economic activity would spread out.
Player numbers/retention would quite probably uptick.
More inustrialists(I’m including traders & haulers etc) would help boost market activity with better activity.
I know since the Trig changes I mostly do safer things with my ships, because I don’t want to deal with the arseache of the route/s to Jita. Ahbazon/Uedama sharktanks has completely lowered my personal levels of destruction in all game areas - I just take less risks overall, because I have little interest in being content for the people in there, to resupply.
A well populated highsec of newer players provides lots of omega accounts to pay for everything (cos newer players mostly can’t/won’t buy plex for omega they’ll pay cash instead). It’s not like they can’t make changes, the trig closing of routes was changes. Universe needs to adapt a bit to player numbers currently. Could always turn it off or make them intermittent connections etc if they wanted a mid point.
Probably should do something about training speed improvements now 20yrs in when some are so far ahead, to keep more new players & have them do/try more areas of the game too, but that’s a whole other topic.
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I don’t se how making things homogenous would make it better.
In the opposite, IMO splitting away the hubs is a good thing, so that each region has its own market . In Eve, just like in real life, the value of an asset depends on that asset, but also its location and availability.
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But it’s not like the WH or null operations or low sec mining or PI was really split away with the 4 hubs. Their importance as a factor of resource provision has actually increased through indy BP & resource redistribution, mining changes etc. Those ops nearly all get directed through production to Jita. So the split away 4 hubs & especially their sub-hubs are in something of a spiral of decay.
It might have sounded good on paper for CCP when they were designing the Trig event & consequences, but in practise in my view it has had the precise opposite effect from ones they stated they wanted.
What I see is Jita has become more dominant. Indy has become more monopolised. People with big stockpiles have ended up with more market control not less. There is less competition, less product availability & the 4 removed hubs & their subs are doing worse not better for the changes.
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Indeed, I agree that the current way of doing things is not perfect.
In a perfect world, there should be several hubs each with their own plus and minus, that is from their distance to the production area. For example amarr should have the most resource of one gas , so that gas should be the cheapest in Amarr.
Maybe that’s not the devs choice though.
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Agreed. There should also be stuff that is cheaper in mats, efficiency or costs in HS. Like maybe some T1 production to stepping stone new indy players with a market role.
And how would you stop entrenched vets from undercutting that immeadiately?
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That however I disagree with.
I never had any control on the market. Maybe I don’t have big stockpile ? I have several T in stockpile. But then you need to specify what you actually mean, otherwise it’s just empty words.
There is still competition. Actually, it’s the competition that is driving the prices down and making the industry a difficult path. It’s just that competition is on small numbers now, so there is less product available which defeats the first goal of a market.
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Do as before - remove all faction stuff from the market and return it to contracts ONLY!!!
Malcanis’ law never stops.
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It’s likely control is the wrong word perhaps, but people without big stockpiles will have found the resource shortage patches very discouraging to build & supply the marketplaces as raw materials went thru the roof, but module & hull prices barely moved far less comparison.
It’s weird to see markets are either low price or no availability for finished product.
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Yes, and that’s why I said it’s because the current state’s optimal way is to post very small numbers.
That’s bad because it prevents people from actually seeding the market.
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The market changes CCP introduced have had several side-effects, probably unintended.
As you say, the current marketing approach is primarily to break stock up into smaller lots and space them out over time. Which means people aren’t dumping all their stock onto the market and adjusting orders until it sells.
There’s also the reluctance to leave stock parked anywhere it’s not going to move soon-ish. With limited orders, and breaking sales down into smaller stacks, traders are only posting and listing amounts they feel will turn over in reasonable time. Which means it’s very easy for a specific item to get bought out before traders either cycle around to checking it again, or decide it’s not worth listing in that region.
I’ve been seeing fairly simple orders for small amounts take days to fill in Dodixie, Rens and Hek. Although these have been second-class hubs for some time, it now feels like they’re third or fourth class.
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I really would be interested to see CCP trial gating each empire directly to the other 3 & having highsec like 0.8 & above trade routes & see if that revitalises play, maybe makes Jita areas less dominant & crowded -other areas better served. I’m not saying hub to hub, but bit shorter lot safer routes.
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That would not change a thing.
The provisioning is not an issue, on the opposite.
I would like Jita to be less dominant (even though I sell there) but this implies having a cost of moving item from one hub to another, and more precisely TO one specific hub rather than another one.
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I agree. To have different vital market hubs it requires 3 changes in my eyes:
Step1: Every Empire gets resources that are large in m³ and can only be found there. Not limited to Ore and Ice, but also loot from NPCs, exploration and so on. They are a requirement for some production steps of certain goods, so there is a huge benefit in building your industry line near the hub of that empire where you can harvest (or buy) these resources the cheapest.
Step2: The costs and risks to transfer large amounts of raw resources from one hub to another has to increase a lot. To prevent large scale circumvention of Step1. Means long routes with lots of 0.5sec Systems in them.
Step3: All systems (or regions, or empires, open for discussion here) get an economic index that influences their salestax/brokerfees. Systems with lower trading volume offer discounts to lure industrialists and their products to them. The lower the trading volume, the lower the taxes and fees, with some floor, so you always safe taxes and fees when not selling at the biggest trade hub.
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I’m not convinced that CCP can force people into different hubs using the all stick, no carrot approach. Even if industry was forced to split regions people would do it right on the edges of those regions then ship products to Jita anyway.
Isn’t this what CCP just proved didn’t work inn nullsec? They introduced the DBS to make ratting income lower as more ratting occured in one area, with the goal to force people to move. What happened is people ratted the area into low income then logged off and stayed logged off.
Same would happen with trade on an even large scale. Larger traders are not going to have literally hudreds of freighters loads hauled from one area to another when taxes get too high, they’ll just pull out of the market.