That’s not a fact. That’s an opinion, without supporting evidence.
If only that were true…
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That’s called tactics and being smart. You’re SUPPOSED to fight to win, not to make it fair. Imagine if we fought real-world battles “fairly” one-on-one. The world map would look much different.
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As a side note, it doesn’t matter how good you are at PvP. Just like in RL, it doesn’t matter if you are a level 1000 ninjitsu master with 100 years of training, if you get surrounded by 20+ average-size guys, you’re going to get your ass kicked…
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Combat in eve requires far more thought and preparation than in many of the games listed.
In eve, people don’t just throw themselves under your guns.
You have to find them, catch them and blow them up. This can take some doing if they’re paying attention and don’t wish to engage.
Hisec ganks are laughably easy to avoid. Ditto gatecamps.
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You don’t partake in it, yet you speak as if you were some kind of expert on it. And yet your entire portrayal of it is entirely a fiction of your own mind…which you have somehow convinced yourself is ‘factual’.
Never mind that you are arguing with people who do actually do PvP on a regular basis and who thus know considerably more than you. It is quite apparent that what you present is little more than a straw man. You go on about ‘facts and numbers’ yet you never present any that genuinely support anything you say.
I would have to say, I seldom take part in PvP here on Eve Online. However I do PvP on Black Desert and Guild Wars ( original version not the sequel ). I realize I do bring up Black Desert a lot here in the forums, Pearl Abyss purchased this game’s developer back in 2018 and I am shocked they are allowed to continue with a such poor PvP play style.
Let me explain what exactly do I mean by “I seldom take part in PvP here on Eve Online.”. Being attacked in a non-combat ship is never PvP. This happened a lot in Black Desert until they made changes. One would be riding a horse at level 50 or above and you would get attacked ( ganked or ambushed ) on the open road. The big difference was, I was able to fight back, I was never unarmed. BDO taught me to never travel the open road unaware of the dangers. Guild Wars has an entire module “Factions” dedicated to some of the best PvP in the world. We still get online every Saturday and Sunday afternoon for PvP weekends. We do Fort Aspenwood and others, it is cooperative PvP teams.
What makes the PvP more desirable in Black Desert? Balance. I can go toe to toe with anyone there. We all bought and paid for our accounts. Some of us went cheap $10 accounts others waited for them to hand out free accounts ( they do it once a year for 1 week ). Either way, we don’t end up with a chasm between players as you have here. Alpha on alpha works okay here but you must request duels and that is not much fun in my book. Recently I commented on the FFA here, while I didn’t attend, a person I know had some fun there. However that is a Player Hosted Event, CCP had nothing to do with it. The person who attended, told me a CCP representative showed up in the last 30 minutes to show off and “steal Rixx Javix’s thunder” like they put out any effort. Why didn’t they at least promote this user generated event?
Keeping Alpha and Omega apart is poor system design, that is not just an opinion. Black Desert makes money without separation. Being an Alpha is not always about a free meal. I do spend my retirement checks on Black Desert. I don’t spend them here. Do I enjoy PvP here? Not that much, because it is not as fun as what I have experienced elsewhere. It could be fun here, if they put in the work. But it is up to CCP developers and not the players fault.
I know what I said here will rub some of you the wrong way. That is only human nature to disagree. We would be very boring people, if we all thought the same way. No matter how you play this and other games, remember just…
Have fun!
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Sounds like they made Black Desert more casual, but not necessarily better.
Being able to go ‘toe to toe with anyone’ is only one style of balance: equal fight balance.
One thing I love in PvP games is unequal fight balance.
Games that support 1 versus many, many versus 1, guerilla fighting, escorting logistics, and all out war.
Games that only offer ‘fair 1v1’ or 3v3, 5v5 etc fights can be fun but are too restrictive and make PvP feel too unorganic to my tastes.
One of my favourite shooters was a combined arms WW2 shooter where some players were driving tanks, others planes and most infantry with all sorts of equipment. It sometimes took many infantry to take out a tank or plane, but fun it was.
Likewise I love the big variation in PvP dynamics in EVE where ‘bring a combat fleet to defend this non-combat hauler’ is a valid playstyle and where a single bold Dread pilot could drop and take down a lot of subcaps in a one versus many fight.
You cannot have such a wide variety of PvP dynamics if every player in the game has to be able to go toe to toe with anyone else.
I never played Black Desert but I believe you if you say you prefer the PvP there.
But from what I hear I prefer the PvP here in EVE and don’t see that other option as ‘better’. It’s merely a ‘different’ form of PvP balance in a game. And a more restrictive form, if I say so.
I think EVE’s idea of PvP is more desirable.
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Not sure the 5:1, 10:1, 20:1, 50:1 (etc.) in EVE isn’t any more restrictive (for the hapless player being dogpiled). It may be more organic, but being the “1” in the 1:infinite definitely isn’t fun.
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So basically you want people brought down to your level rather than having to rise up to theirs. No doubt with a participation award too.
Personally I want to become good through my own skill and effort…rather than having my ‘average…needs more homework’ status raised by bringing down the skill and experience of others. It doesn’t make me feel less worthy. It gives me the incentive to learn and skill up until I am one of the top players.
Practically every ship in EVE can be fitted for PvP.
Yes…this is EVE. If it was supposed to be comparable with Black Desert then it would be called Black Desert.
What an interesting thread this is.
As usual on the forum, it is turning into a fight, where each side feels the need to devalue the view of the opposing side.
Why is it so hard to accept that this game is a sandbox?
Some kids like to build sandcastles, some like to fight, others eat mud, whatever.
My experience in EVE is, that one is measured by his Zkillboard alot. Well, it is part of this ‘culture’ i guess. When i started playing, i aspired to have a ‘nice’ zkill.
But imho, most of the time i was killing players that were less well prepared for a fight or even afk.
Anyways, EVE is a game. If you enjoy hunting targets and blapping them, you do you.
I don’t get, why this is something worth arguing about. I for my part am running L4 Missions at the moment. I find it relaxing and i like the explosions. I do not care, what anyone thinks about it or that it is not stated somewhere, how many NPCs i have killed. Who cares.
The point of doing this in an MMO is simple. Social interactions. Even when doing solo PvE content, you can still participate in a chat, see what other players are doing in the game, make some friends etc.
If you get worked up by all of the oppinions other people might have, try a cup of chamomille tea.
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maybe, just maybe, we all know deep down inside of us, that EVE is just a waste of time.
so to make us feel better about it, we are trying to justify our timewaste as a better form of playing the game.
cause, if someone else is wasting his time even worse than me, everything is okay.
just a random thought
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As long as you enjoy playing the game it’s not a waste of time!
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‘Discussion’ is a better notion than argument. Although as you say, the usual crowd that only looks to argue will jump in with the same old opinions (and zero factual support) every time.
The primary reason for discussion, IMO, is to help set the ‘background’ for CCP’s design decisions. Even though CCP isn’t generally active on their own forums, some of the things discussed here do eventually trickle through to Reddit or the CSM or people who go to Fanfest etc., and these conversations add to those conversation and a slow trickle of feedback wends its’ feeble way back to CCP HQ.
I feel the discussion is valuable for that, but also so that there’s a few more people in-game willing to explain things to newer (and even older) players in a more balanced fashion than we usually see.
Too often it’s the case that the people who are most willing to ‘share’ their opinions with new players are the ones with the narrowest or most biased view. Good discussion helps to offset that a tiny bit.
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yes, of course.
IF the discussion is leading somewhere, then it definitely is improving the game.
may it be by shaping the community or even catching the attention of the devs.
but what i often observe here, is people trying to prove that they are right and everyone else isn’t
Well, you can’t have an open and free discussion without also allowing the people who have uninformed, ignorant, biased, inflexible or even just completely opposite opinions to weigh in.
For myself, I try to focus on the posters who actually offer something meaningful to say (whether I agree with it or not), and skim past the 2/3 of replies that are effectively content-free. And as you say, avoid getting worked up over the opinions of unknown randos on the internet.
Even then, it’s sometimes necessary to take a break from forums and social media for a while, just for mental health maintenance. But in general I feel it’s better to be engaged than not to be, even if it sometimes feels like shouting against the tide.
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Odd how that’s always everyone except you.
Being ‘informed’ seems to consist of bluster about ‘data’…not one scrap of which you actually provide here.
And being lectured to about PvP by someone who has a single kill record in 2017…well, enough said. There’s some ‘data’ for you.
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What are the zkillboard requirements for talking about pvp? Missed that in the forum rules.
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“EVE” is less everybody vs. everybody and more akin to gang vs. everybody.
You have to not suck (according to most zkillboard metrics).
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Well…some indication that one has at least undocked in the past 8 years would be a start 
I mean, seriously, I’d accept advice on PvP from someone with 10,000 solo kills ( and such people do exist ), but I’m not going to accept it from someone with no kills at all.