How new pilots might keep a structure safe from Mercs, for a few weeks, in New Eden

PvP Gameplay Center Warfare & Tactics
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The Y0Mama manoeuvre

aka - How new pilots might keep a structure safe from the Mercs, for a few weeks, in New Eden.

Carlos & Star are steely-eyed missile men…

A few thoughts on what a new pilot or a new-player Corp might need (what we’ve needed) to try and keep a station ‘safe’ in-game for about a week in High Sec.

I’ve been thinking about how we could help make Hi Sec safer for new players for the last few weeks & I thought maybe I/Carlos would put it put to the community :slight_smile:

Firstly, I’ve never posted anything like this before, so realise it could go either way.

I understand some of the in-game pilots I may indirectly reference are probably super people in real life, I’d enjoy having a beer with them.

The Manoeuvre (ha) is a work-in-progress and all the ISK calculations may need refining over time.

The ultimate test would be putting the theory into practice and opening a market within 5 jumps of Jita, which would be a considerable in-game ISK risk for a Corp of new players (there’s about 4-years total in-game experience between the new players in the Corp).

I’ll try to update this post when I inevitably make a mistake & have to tweak the plan :upside_down_face:

I am posting on the forums for feedback, discussion & maybe a reference point for new pilots in the game.

I’m assuming long-term pilots have been using a variation of this tactic for years (?).

New pilot Corps will need to form an in-game Alliance which means you’ll need -

  • 1 Omega Alt with Empire Control skills fully trained
  • Approx. 20 Alpha Alts
  • Up to seven Corps
  • About 45b ISK (skill injectors, skill purchases, station & bays, Red Frog etc)

:warning: If you cannot do this on your own then I’d seriously consider if placing your station, in a central High Sec system, is worth it.

The basic principle is to form an Alliance so you can transfer any structure (and leave the Alliance) when you are inevitably war dec’e by Mercenaries. Without a structure to attack Concord invalidates any ongoing war, it seems.

Once Mercenaries war dec’s your Corp or Alliance you have 24h so decide what to do.

Do not feel pressured to pay the in-game ransom as you are on a timer.

The Mercenaries will use this to their advantage, so you get maybe 8h to make a big in-game decision.

eg - Y0Mama had 30b ISK on the line and were asked to pay 3.8b ISK within 14h.

3.8b ISK = 1,809 PLEX = Requires an £84.99 pack.

30b ISK = 13,000 PLEX = Equivalent of approx two £212.49 packs.

The Mercenaries can set up the in-gamer blackmail mechanic so it brews overnight, it seems.

(This is an in-game sociopath’s dream, in my opinion, with no age verification or tap-out mechanism for newer players, as far as I could see.)

(I am not/do not want to imply for a second that anyone I’ve dealt with recently in-game is an actual sociopath, just to make that 100% clear. See comment above regarding beverages in beer gardens.)

Mercenaries can be unreasonable, I guess, as that is their in-game persona.

However, do not feel this is the end of the world!

You Corps’ options are most probably -

  • You could strip the fittings to the bear minimum & make sure the structure is not a loot Piñata when it pops

  • Or try to form a fleet to counter any Mercenaries , when they attack your structure’s shields. This is probably not advisable

However if the Corp that owns the structure leaves an alliance before the 24 starts / 1st vulnerability period kick’s in the war is invalidated by Concord, stops in 24h & the aggressing Mercenaries can’t go for you, for 2 weeks.

Another Corp can declare war on the Corp with the structure, obviously, and I’m sure there’s a ‘who’s got the most Corps?’ trick, to be exploited in the code somewhere.

I’m going to see if there is a way I can help counter this in game, I have set-up a new alliance that is going to try and help new-player Corps, maybe with some type of Station Replacement Programme available moving forward.

This is new for us and may take a few weeks to get right, but if you are interested then drop Kevin from HR (not Carlos if you don’t mind) an in-game message.

The Alliance is called -

So Long and Thanks for All the Isk

If you are thinking of deploying a structure in or around Jita then it might be an idea to make an application to this alliance before you deploy :bulb:

There could a moment, during the process above, that a new player will have to give control of their station to an in-game ‘stranger’, which I understand is not optimal as you’re probably under enough stress as it is as you are on a 24 timer.

Hope this helps, please feedback with any tweaks & I’m happy to update the blog post.

Fly safe x

Carlos

:blue_heart: :heart:

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The war follows the structure.

Corp A wardecs Corp B with a structure
Corp B join alliance, alliance inherits war
Corp B transfer structure to another corp C in alliance and leaves alliance.
Corp C also leaves alliance
War from Corp A drops on alliance and Corp B (No structure)
War on Corp C stays.

We have seen this happen time and time again. At the very least this protects the members but not the structure. At the end it does not matter how you move the structure between corps, there is no state where the structure cannot be attacked once the war is live.

However, this is a great way to steal people structures. I don’t know if this belongs in the newbie section though.

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As Kane said this “maneuver” does not work to prevent a structure from being attacked. The war always follow the structure.

Some actual advice for new players then; wars are largely against structures and thus are completely optional for you, the new player. If you don’t want to fight, you can leave a Corp at war at any time. If you don’t want to fight a war, you can just avoid joining a Corp with structures (war eligible). And if you really insist on owning a structure but don’t want to fight, you can use an holding Corp to deploy it, and share access rights to allow your main Corp to benefit from it. No wars for you.

That all said, you cannot play the evasion games to dodge a war against a structure. The structure itself is open to attack via a wardec and you should be prepared to lose it or defend it, or pay someone else to defend it for you. You can’t weasel out of that.

But probably the best advice for a new player is just don’t deploy a structure until you have some experience. At first just, use someone else’s until you better understand the risks and responsibilities of owning one.

Edit: maybe Kane’s implication is correct and this is just a scam and not a good-faith mistake post. In any case, such a proposal has no place in this subforum.

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Thanks for the feedback, this is a tough mechanic to learn to counter in ~4 days. Work in progress, which I guess we’ll refine with experience.

(I’m assuming that when a Corp leaves the alliance with the structure another Corp, not involved in the original War, could War Dec them & the defender Corp would have very little time to join a new alliance & transfer the structure, again?

You’d prob need a new Alliance invite set-up, for the Corp that’s leaving, so as soon at they left they applied to join.

It would be a v tight turnaround in 24h, right?

CCP have removed my post, which is a shame.

Anyway, it’s the “This is an in-game sociopath’s dream, in my opinion, with no age verification.” is the main point I thought we could focus on here, as a community.

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If the war was already declared the attacker does not need to declare again.

As mentioned the war follows the structure. There is no avoiding it as long as that structure exist. Now imagine this.

Corp A has 2 structures
Corp A gets wardecced
Corp A join alliance, war is now alliance wide
Corp A moves 1 structure into Corp B and another into Corp C
Corp B and Corp C leaves the alliance
War on Corp A and Alliance drops (no more structures)
War on Corp B and Corp C stays.

No matter the amount of structure or how you split them, the war keeps following the structure. The corp names will change but the constant here is the structure. As long as the structure exist the war stays active for as long as the attacker pays the war bill or for as long as the structure is alive.

There is no mechanics that will remove a declared war other than surrenders, destruction of attackers WarHQ, or destruction of the final structure in corp.

You also keep talking about the 24 hour period. Once war is declared nothing you do will remove the war from that structure. The only reason you would want to move a structure as quickly as possible into a 1 man structure holding corp will be to protect the members.

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Yup yup, I’m getting use to that.

It’s Concord invalidating the war & the aggressing Alliance not being able to War Dec again, for two weeks, I’m trying to exploit here.

I think it’s a bit weighted, in-game, to the aggressors. Y0Mo could have had had 50+ Academy pilots read to ship-up and try & blap the attaching fleet (great content for them, imho), but if they have done that they’re the ones who woud have got attacked by Concord. I found that weird, tbh.

I guess I’m trying to suggest ways to make the mechanic a little more even (should it be even in a sandbox, I’m not sure).

Maybe the 20 pilots with the most to lose, in any given station, have the option to join the defenders, for example, or at least they don’t get targeted by the local police?

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In Highsec,

People can either join the Corp or ally up. To ally up the Corp or Alliance will need a structure as well, which then also makes them wardeccable. This is where it evens out, as you can bring as many defenders as you like. :slight_smile:

At the same time nothing would have stopped those 50 pilots from jumping out of their current Corp and jumping into your Corp to to help. But then you need to consider if they actually want to. Even then if they do jump it means they cannot join their own corp again for two weeks as it is active in a war as well.

So you always have the ability to bring in defenders the tricky part is knowing the right people or knowing those that would be willing to do so.

The mechanics is already heavily in the defenders favor, the trick is getting those involved that actually care to help. And there is where most things fall flat. Which is also why the Merc scene is so alive. We make billions from defense contracts.

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TY, will read & have a think.

I know my autism* didn’t react v well to the in-game pressure, sorry about that, btw.

It’s one of the other reason I’m poking CCP a lot about this atm, there was no-tap out for me which really twisted my (water)melon.

    • Hardly fully diagnosed, the best I’ve got from the NHS during lockdown is ‘high-functioning’, which makes me sound more like Charles Dance playing a crap Bond villain…
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Thread did not belong in New Citizens section.

ISD Bahamut

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In your opinion.

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You can keep a structure safe from mercs by hiring other mercs to protect it.

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Or even the same mercs.

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Any merc that would accept a payoff to flip on a contract is probably not trustworthy enough to give your ISK to even if you’re desperate. It would be a better investment for any fledgling structure owners to hire a different unit to defend them or just replace it later.

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Isn’t the entire point of mercenaries that you pay them to do what you want?

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Absolutely. Loyalty goes to the highest bidder IMO. Perhaps it’s fair for all parties to get the opportunity to out-bid each other.

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Yep…

Which is why, If I am going after a target and people come along for the ride one of two thing can happen. I might ransom or I might want the killmark. Depending on the ship, if I have not killed it yet since returning to EVE it is going to be a killmark. But you cannot have both the killmark and ransom.

If you do that you make isk until your reputation catches up to you. And I like to maintain my reputation as that eccentric player that will either ransom or kill you based on some arbitrary whim. but if I do ransom, I will let you go.

One Caveat… I am here to enjoy myself in EVE. I will hold myself to that but I will not force that on other people. They need to play the way they see fit to enjoy the game. Only difference is, I might just never deal with you when isk is involved no matter how well we know each other :).

@Carlos_Daanger We can test your theory crafting over the weekend. :slight_smile: I noticed you decided to create a corp in my name.

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One thing to add to this post.

It would seem as if the Corp with the structure should NOT be in the Alliance before it is war dec’ed.

So the steps are.

1/ Your Corp applies to join the Alliance.

2/ Anchor your structure.

3/ When your Corp is war dec’ed by :pirate_flag: you get in touch with the Alliance Executor and they accept your Corp’s application. It takes 24h to be processed.

4/ Hopefully, with the vulnerability set to 03:00 Eve (updated for BST), you will be able to join the Alliance, switch the structure & then the Corp with the structure leaves the Alliance (or is kicked).

5/ Concord will invalidate the war against the Alliance you are in (that took over the war) plus they should place the 24h cooldown on the Corp that has left the Alliance & has the structure, as they were not involved in the original war’dec.

This is really tricky to pull-off, as you’ve got very little turn-around for the Alliance Exec to perform all the little tasks they need to do.

Still not 100% tested, however I’ve managed to keep two structures safe this way, I think it helps if you are Alliance Exec too, rather than having to ask someone else to do all the tasks you need, quickly.

Happy to test this again, if CCP gave me the ISK back from that dodgy freighter gank* a few week ago cough.

(* - Don’t :sob: :pirate_flag:, it still :pig_nose: of :poop:)

Fly safe x

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It is cool that you tinker with these so that folks are aware of the mechanics.

What I do not understand though is why your so called new player corp would want structures to begin with? It only took CCP like 15 years to make it so that you cant just go ahead and wardec every newb corp you like since the defender now needs to have a structure. What does the newbie corp gain from the structure they would not get from public structures? Wouldnt keeping your corpmates safe be more of a priority, not protecting some structure?

Maybe they should add some kinda warning popup to someone who is about to place the first structure.

I mean if they really are new players they will just get shot and not even understand what happened.

Also not sure if CCP reimburses ganked freighters, forums is not the place to ask for that , you gotta file ingame ticket for that.

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I was under the impression that once you are war dec’d even before the war goes live that you can’t transfer structures.

@God_Emperor_Kane ?

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You can transfer internally between corps in the alliance.