Lol, you’re actually talking to one.
Yea we still got members, but that too is a disappearing trade with every decade…
Should come back once the apocalypse hits tho 
I don’t think it would be best to reduce the power gap. Veterans have paid for their power levels (through one mechanism or another), they don’t suddenly need to see new accounts receiving boosts that make them a competitive force.
Some form of segmentation or tiering of challenges faced would work better. New players simply should not be competing directly against people with 80M+ SP the minute they step out of the tutorial. New players would have more fun and find it more engaging to have at least some areas where they can compete against people at roughly their own level.
This is less of an early retention issue, and more of a “okay, this player stuck it out for the first 2 weeks, now what draws him further into the game?” issue. If a newer player flies around high sec trying to get in to the game, and is constantly being scooped by Jackdaws and Gilas and Tengus and Orcas and Retrievers and Machariels, a few of them will look at that setup, then look at the skill training process, and say “Okay I’ll sub for 6 months to get in to those things”. But many more will just put the game down and try a different one.
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Well this thread went down the drain quickly. Please stop trading insults, it won’t help you “win” whatever it is you’re advocating for so quit being edgy.
One of the areas I hope will bring a lot players in is the Korean localisation CCP have almost finished. With the acquisition by Pearl Abyss and the access to the Korean market they provide, i have my fingers crossed for the future. The Koreans love their video games. Get the NPE right whilst retaining the current players and bringing in the Korean market, we could hit 40k+ again… who knows!
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So i disagree here. I’m a big null seccer, but I’d personally like to see the skills gap reduce. In most MMOs you can reach endgame and compete in pvp within a month or 2… In Eve some ship fights will be years away for a newbie, that’s incredibly punishing and it asks a lot of a new player in terms of continued sub payments to reach that point.
I’d be all for way more new player SP giveaways to close the gap, maybe get them competitive in subcap pvp within 2-3 months. Maybe as much as 10-15m SP given to newbies but drip fed over time.
Vets have the acquired wealth to show for their time and effort. Let’s not try to suppress new players so we can feel superior in all areas of the game. We need catch up mechanics if we want the newbies to stick around.
A shame that virtually every MER ever published proves you wrong. Perhaps a reality check would serve you better than pulling some numbers out of thin air and claiming they are the new status quo.
Agreed that bringing each region up to a more interesting playability balance is the way to go, not nerfing into sameness. However the idea that “Null sec remains compelling” by making it a 500M ISK per hour farming zone actually does hurt high seccers, because it means they can never really be competitive in the game without moving to null or becoming trade bots.
Make null interesting and worthwhile to play in, sure. Continue to make Null the primary “join the donut and farm your face off” zone, not so good.
Well sure, that would be best. When I said don’t reduce the power gap, I meant more that higher levels of SP shouldn’t be penalized in some way, nor newer players given some sort of bonus out of the gate, to simply ‘reduce the SP/gear gap’. Because what newer players need is actually a progression path that helps them develop their play skills and find a competitive role within the game.
“Newer players gaining skills faster through active” is a slightly different issue, which absolutely should be in the game. EVE has far too many passive, “just sub and click here a few times and log off for a week then come back” mechanics. The long boring tedium of working your way up through the ISK grind, the SP grind, the gear grind is probably what turns off most potential Omegas.
However even if you gave players the ‘3 daily random tasks for SP’ mechanic for SP earning that I’ve referred to elsewhere, or the “SP bonus for achieving certain goals” mechanic, you would still have the issue that when the new players go out to achieve those objectives, they are directly competing against people with SP, ships and gear that are way overpowered for them.
So “give newer players a faster and more active growth path” is definitely a useful approach, but there still is that “encourage them to grow by progressing with other players closer to their own level” element which is missing.
Ok, so yes you’re right, but you’ve missed my point. I’m referring to acquiring ISK through pve and the fact high sec pve allows you to acquire more ISK than null. For instance, rorqs happen to be one of the things people complain about the most when referring to null sec wealth, but they produce 0 ISK, it’s the value of the ore which is important - I made my isk through running 3 rorqs.
What I’m saying, which is 100% correct, is you can earn more ISK in high/wormholes than null. My numbers are totally accurate and I can prove it:
T5 Abyssals in high for 800m/hour: Twitch
L4 mission runner in high for 600m/hour: Twitch
Incursions for 600m/hour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4JLgg5GWI
C5 dreads for 3b/hour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fujQNeLPd8
Null cannot touch those numbers. Not a lot of high sec players have 3 accounts as they tend to be less hardcore than null and way lower in SP, so you don’t see as much of it going on, but as someone who has personally shifted from rorq mining to triple boxxing T5 abyssals in assault frigs from the safety of high (no more risking 24b of rorqs!!) I’m making a ■■■■ ton more ISK than I did mining.
Now if you want to balance the MER then see my other topic, I think this is best achieved by reducing null isk bounties (ratting), wormholes commodity values and introducing new ISK sinks (faction caps which cost 100b+ liquid ISK - sell just 10 of those a month and you’re MER is balanced - watch how quickly null would unfuck the economy if the trig dread cost 100b liquid, so much isk would leave the economy).
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Every time they release the numbers, I ask myself the same question: “Why can’t they just reduce bounty payouts a bit?”
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Saying it’s ‘possible’ is irrelevant. Since you’re referring to people triple-boxing in endgame activities you’ve just limited yourself to saying “3% of the EVE audience might be able to pull this off”.
Your numbers show what is theoretically possible for a small subset of players. The MERs show what actually happens.
You don’t base game design changes on what the 3% of ridiculously OP characters can do. You base them on what 2/3 of the player base can do, and then add in some limits to balance the extremes.
100% agreed. As Xeux just said, it gets harder and harder every month to see these imbalances and watch CCP do nothing about them.
I suspect they already have a good idea that reducing payouts would lead to a lot of people saying “Hey, I’m totally used to earning 600M ISK per hour as my minimum. Now that I can only earn 400M per hour I’m just gonna unsub. Sorry CCP, you broke the game.”
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It’s way more than 3% of players doing it. That’s the key difference between rich and poor in this game, most null players run multiple accounts and a good proportion of high sec too. You get out what you put in, people are flocking to big ticket high ISK activities to acquire wealth and most of those are in high sec or wormholes atm. You can never balance those activities against someone in high sec using 1 account who is ignorant of things like T5 running or Incursions (or too frightened or lacking the effort to try them).
With that said, the ISK/hour for a single rorq pilot in null is only 120m which is still lower than running a single gila in T5s in high so it is balanced on the single account level - which has been a good design direction.
Add in some isk sinks, null bounty nerfs and wormhole commodity reductions and we’d be good, although you will see more and more null migrating to high as has been happening recently.
Going back to my original posts though, what I’d like to see is the cyno change reverted, give me and other null players like me, a reason to resub our cap accounts. Embrace all playstyles, no need to bicker as to whether high or null deserve buffs/nerfs, all activities should be equally RESPECTED and have equally COMPELLING design changes/updates.
High sec are carrying a persecution complex without realising how good they have it at present. There is a reason null seccers choose high for acquiring ISK now.
Wow! Those are insane numbers!
I know, right? 600M per hour on L4 missions? I must be doing it wrong. Still, I’m not sure arm wrestling the poster over those numbers is worth it.
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Yeah, that figure is likely for burners specifically rather than level 4 missions in general.
Personally I make more blitzing level 3’s for LP in a RHML Raven than running level 4’s.
eve classic: red moon rising
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This thread in short:
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WAAAAAAH high sec isn’t 100% safe mindless PvE farming at maximum ISK/hour, nerf all highsec PvP so I can farm more.
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WAAAAAH I can’t drop my capital blob on everything, EVE isn’t fun unless I’m multiboxing capital PvE farms and making more ISK in an hour than many players will ever have.
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WAAAAAH EVE costs money, how dare CCP charge for subscriptions and not make everything free as a charity service.
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WAAAAAH EVE isn’t an instant gratification game where a new player can do endgame content within a week, it’s not fair that I have to invest effort into building something and make long-term plans.
Thank god some of you are not game developers because your ideas are terrible.
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You are doing it wrong then. 200m per account no problem. Literally click the Twitch link I posted for you and watch his old vids, in particular his “100b challenge” where he tripple boxxed burner L4 missions and made 100b in a month at a rate of 600m/hour.
You really shouldn’t be so ignorant of the potential of high sec when you’re calling for null nerfs. High is where the best ISK can be made. It is terrible for ore though, high miners need a buff.
Where did I call for null nerfs, bruh?
Agree in terms of the major concerns expressed in this thread. Disagree that it should be perceived as crying. If players are discontent then a better design is needed to deliver an enjoyable experience else players will unsub and find a more fun game.
Happy to stand corrected. Makes more sense now.
I used Skill Injectors to catch up. And yes, the cap did stop me.
I still make the odd mistake, but I do ok generally.