What you actually miss here that this is exactly what other games do and have success with it…
You can dam this fact but ignoring it is no option…
A number of years back we had a truly awful biased ISD who the HTFU crowd sucked up to, to a nauseating degree and who went after what he would define as carebears. It took years for CCP to kick him. The damage to the casual player base from that one ISD was huge. I hope we don’t go in that direction again.
I have seen some worrying signs myself recently.
I see the cry babies are back to their lame reporting games, the poor little dears.
So let me double down, I have been very impressed with most of the ISD over the last couple of years, but just over the last couple of months there have been certain things deleted that reminded me of this previous ISD. If you snowflakes don’t like that being pointed out then go and live in China as that obviously suits you.
Really glad this thread hasn’t been locked yet!
I recently went through the new player intro again. To be honest I did find it less engaging than I remember it being in the past. It still focuses almost entirely on how to outfit your ship and activate modules and that’s about it.
I agree. New players, especially those trying things out solo, have the deck stacked against them. The game is so interesting! Every time I sub again I try my best to experience what EVE has to offer but find myself lacking funds, skills, and security. I don’t think it has anything to do with patience. It’s the fact that I have to risk 30mil ISK just to make 1mil. Experienced players know how to lower their risk and can afford a measly 30mil ISK. New players are much more likely to suffer a loss and that 30mil ISK was hours worth of boring “safe” high-sec activities.
It’s very disheartening to read about how so many activities seem to require risking hundreds of millions of ISK just to take part in. Want to rat in wormholes? Better be willing to buy and risk a nice battlecruiser! Until I have that kind of income to risk I’m stuck doing the incredibly boring low-risk stuff.
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The game does have many things to offer, it is a lot for a new player to take in. I can recall a couple personal milestones…when i made my first million ISK, when i bought my first Retriever and also how mad i was when it got blow up for no other reason than padding someones kill board. I get that PvP is part of the game and that the term “carebears” is often used in a condescending manner. However new players won’t stay when someone can undo all of their hard work and laugh about it afterwards
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Personally I see wormholes as a multi-player venture or very proactive/motivated solo player with a lot of experience behind them.
I got into wormholes early on as I was lucky enough to join with a group from another forum who were just making the move into a C3 from mostly highsec living which made the ISK investment and so on much more doable. At the time I barely had the skills to fly a cruiser never mind a BC LOL somehow we made it work.
What a pile of BS you just wote … 
That is THE SOLUTION but CCP ( again ) do not have courage and resources for that.
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The real problem is that too many players here do behave anti-social and call it “fun” and “this is the only way this game has to be played”
We must get rid of those people first or we will never get a step forward…
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Of course you can prove this statement being true.
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New players won’t stay if there isn’t a way for them to mess with the other players and impact the world around them.
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Watching people who imagine it’s clever to reverse someone else’s words isn’t going to improve any new player’s impression of EVE’s existing player base.
More generally, this forum is excellent supporting evidence for the principle “In EVE, never trust anyone ever”, which is a very effective filter for new players.
Personally I see almost everything in EVE as a multi-player venture. There is very little content in the game for a solo player unless they’re alright with loosing their ships constantly. I get the emphasis on group play, this is an MMO after all, but there isn’t any other MMO where you will be actively hunted and killed in 75% of the playable area. In this way group play isn’t an emphasis but essentially a necessity.
Unfortunately groups are so formal and strict in EVE. Say I want to join up with Brave. I have to go to their third-party website and log-in using my EVE credentials and send an application. I then have to wait for a recruiter to accept me. Once I’m accepted I will become a war-target for a huge amount of players and am now no longer “safe” in high-sec. I now need to travel to the area of null-sec that Brave plays in and must now spend the majority of my time in this same area, playing with the same people, doing the same thing. In some sense it feels like I would be more restricted playing in a group than I was trying to play solo.
I’d like the ability to jump in and out of groups without so much formality around it.
@BPRelvara_LSG
Please don’t post like this! It will only result in threads being locked which prevents discussion.
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Hi,
Here is a point of view of a new player who tried the game and is about to quit for a second time.
First a little bit of background : I’ve been playing video games since my dad bought an
Atari-2600 for Christmas and I never stoped since then 
I don’t describe myself as a ‘‘cheap player’’. As a software developper, I can see the time and effort put into a game and I don’t mind spending some money in it. My gaming styles and interests are also diverse. In the past few years I bought Minecraft, Overwatch, Ark, GTA5, Monster Hunter and I invested money into Tera and Blade & Soul.
So last year I decided to look for a new game to play and I found Eve while browsing the free to play section on Steam. Yay! I found a space mmo, it’s an old game (2004 ish) but it’s free to play.
The first impression I got was a good one. The graphics looks good, they must have been updated not so long ago, there seems to be a lot you can do and the map is huge. A lot of fun and exploration. As I completed some of the tutorials and I looked at the ships you can fly I discovered that you could have a cloacked ship, explore without being seen and then you can do surprise attacks. It seems to requires a lot of skill training and isk but let’s have fun farming and training some skills! Then, while looking at the required skills for my ‘‘space ninja’’ project I realised that as a free to play player, I was a second rank citizen. No problem, I’ll invest some money to buy a ship or two and the skills I need to fly it…
That’s when I understood that this game was an old game and only the graphics have been updated through the years. It’s not a free to play game, it’s a demo and the full game requires a subscription 
The subscription model IS DEAD. There’s no way a new player will pay 15$ a month for an old game that you have to train a ton of skills for months in order to be able to fly the cool ships.
If it wants to attract and retain new player, the company (CCP?) hosting this game has to make bold decisions and big changes. Starting by getting rid of the subscription model and going in a ‘‘Pay once and get all the game’’ model or ‘‘Free to play with transactions’’ or a mix of both… The game also needs a serious redesign. The interface is crowded and difficult to use. The combat system is boring, it’s like those 2004 mmo I played, tab to target and select skills to attack (or weapons if you prefer). You are flying a ship in space!!! With today’s technology you could make real time combats full of action, or make them fully strategic.
All that being said I took time to write this because I liked the general feel of the game. The music is good and the voice acting when you wrap and dock your ship adds to the Scifi in space ambiance. You can tell efforts has been made into updating the graphics. I like that the map is so big, there’s a lot to explore and yet a potential fight hides in every corner. The skills and ships progression looks balanced for an mmo and I can see a lot of potential in playing in a corporation with others.
But for now I’ll just stick with my second rank citizen ships and explore until I have no more ships to fly. Then I’ll go to another game.
Sorry if this post is a bit long and in a not so good english (not my first language) but it was the only way I found to tell you the impression the game made.
Dooz
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Not sure I agree with that - but I think the game needs to offer things it currently doesn’t in terms of gameplay experience to get people to pay that - as I mentioned above it is competing with games now that offer certain coop/PVE and multi-player PVP experiences off the bat that in Eve are less easily accessible or more adhoc in manner (which is both a positive and a negative as it does allow for more innovation and player lead twists to the gameplay but at the same time makes it harder to break into) and less fleshed out in terms of chained together content like mission arcs and raid type gameplay, etc.
Games like this struggle to stand out against the free play models but I don’t think the subscription model is dead it just needs a bit of moving with the times.
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Personally, i don’t really have a problem with paying a subscription for something i enjoy. $15 per month for unlimited play is really not that big of a deal when you consider that you can spend that going to a movie and only be entertained for about 2 hours (assuming the movie is good). I think what puts new players off of subscriptions are a lot of gamers have gotten too use to mobile games that are free to download and play, but those tend to have a “pay to win” component
Yes! But IRL brave “vikings” are … 
If anything people have more subscriptions now than they did before. Netflix, spotify, patreon…I don’t think its the monthly cost that’s the issue. As Roff has said, it’s the fact that EVE competes with other subscription based MMOs that offer a lot to new players right from the start.
I still have friends that pay monthly for old school Runescape! That game has way too much grind for me, but they have added in a lot in terms of bosses and raids and the like. I can join and start getting involved with the community without being harassed by high level players and without having to apply to a player run clan.
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Add private shared hangars across characters that aren’t corp hangars.
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Good point about subscriptions, I have Eve and Netflix myself. It seems the general consensus is that PvP and people losing ships, etc to other payers that they have no hope at defending themselves against is the real concern. A few days ago I posted a suggestion about improving QoL for wormholers and couple people that did reply, didn’t really offer much constructive feedback. What I got was a short sighted HTFU and flat out misinformation
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